half life 2 engine

boss429 · Post by **boss429** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 02:52 am

Even if HL2's engine was better than DarkPlaces it would still take a ton of work to redo everything on the HL2 engine, and no developers want to even work on a HL2 Blood remake (at least I've never seen any). So if you want to get a project going on the HL2 engine you are on your own. If you want to pull a one-man HL2 mod, no ones stoping you (except maybe Monolith or Atari)

Now DarkPlaces is not crap. Have you actually seen what it can do?
Nexuiz is a great example of Darkplaces at work:
http://www.alientrap.org/nexuiz/
Also have you seen scar3crow's screenshot's of DarkPlaces

?
viewtopic.php?t=815

Post by **Willis** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 04:02 am

Icer wrote:are you calling me a noob dumbo? i only suggested this, the last time i checked this was the SUGGESTIONS FORUM right? so get over it.

-

And the last time I checked, there is also a search function
and a FAQ page

Zardoz · Post by **Zardoz** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 05:24 am

The TF community brings this constant engine harrassment on itself.

Boss wrote

Now DarkPlaces is not crap. Have you actually seen what it can do?
Nexuiz is a great example of Darkplaces at work:
http://www.alientrap.org/nexuiz/
Also have you seen scar3crow's screenshot's of DarkPlaces ?
viewtopic.php?t=815

That's a little sad people. Transfusion should'nt have to go to other projects to show off DP. I know all you blood types out there are a little nervous about 8 bit textures on DP but cmon'! Most of the pics up now are from Transfusion 0.87!

Is it Pain Keep that has that awsome little MP map? You know, the castle with all the tight little corners and creepy lighting. If you get that map on q3 format, change the lighting color from white to orange or red. Give frikbot some new high poly axe zombie cloths to wear- damn that would make for some fine screens!

Post by **DustyStyx** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 05:44 am

It's a little pointless to show off the full extent of DarkPlaces in regards to what we are doing with Transfusion. To keep the feel of Blood we really want to redo it as close to the original as possible, it elimiates alot of "but that wasn't in Blood!" critiques.

I'm of the opinion that when people suggest we do Transfusion on Source or Unreal etc. they are really sugesting that would like to see Blood redone with hirez texures and more realistic map architecture. Honestly, I'd like to see Blood redone ala hi-rez as well, but I also want to see it done as close to the original as possible.

Who knows, maybe we ought to accept submissions for updated map architecture as a side release. We'd still want to have it done for DarkPlaces, honestly, to "push" what it can do. Just to eliviate the "you should..." nagging

scar3crow · Post by **scar3crow** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 05:58 am

I say, make Transfusion as it is being made already.

Honestly simply having new maps being made with more detail in the brushwork and more attention to lighting will go so much farther than texture resolution could. Period.

Personally, if I was remaking a Blood map... it wouldnt be true, not out of disloyalty or some such, just that... for example the outside of the funeral home in e1m1, I would consider its final geometry to be the basic showcase for the brushwork of the actual map. But that is something to do for an addon episode if someone wants to do, create more of the Blood universe with finer brush work.

Post by **DustyStyx** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 06:33 am

You just rephased what I just said... did you only read the first and last lines of the paragraphs?

The idea would be to push the limits of what DP can do. Except that beyond enhanced architexture and lighting, I'd realy like to see well places examples of normal mapping. (The light debth illusion you see with the Doom3 and new Unreal engine demos, for thoes who dont know.) Stone carvings, tree bark, things of that nature.

boss429 · Post by **boss429** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 07:01 am

Zardoz, the reason I posted screenshots from other Darkplaces games is that I assumed Icer had already played Transfusion and thought that the graphics in Transfusion were already pushing the limits of DarkPlaces, when in fact they aren't using bump maps and all that great stuff.

Anyways I think the maps should stay exactly the same as they were in Blood. Except for odd bugs like that one map with the floating pot (I forget which one)

I don't really like redone Hi-res textures for old games. (such as Doom & Quake)
They are usally to far off from the originals and they often look really bad when they are tiled and repeated over a large area (as sometimes happens in old FPS games)

scar3crow · Post by **scar3crow** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 07:09 am

Cruaich - Not quite, I was speaking of creating entirely new levels in the same spirit and atmosphere as Blood in Transfusion with a finer attention to detail, in the same vein that the Quake mission packs had more detailed levels than the id maps.

Post by **DustyStyx** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 08:08 am

Ah, I see. I'd like to see e1m1 fully redone myself. It'd be familular territory for thoes comparing the old and the new.

Boss: Yeah, hi-rez remakes can be done really bad. But that's genearly due to the fact that most of the time they get the priorites between the old and the new mixed up. They want it both, but have a hard time drawing the line. Blood has the advantage that it's not nessisaraly a fictional environment.

What I mean by that is there ARE grave yards, and train yards, and carnivals etc. Plenty of sources you can draw from to make it look real. Doom and Quake hi-rez remakes have to relly on imagination to fill in the environmental details. Unfortunatly that can lead to either to much or to little.

Post by **Willis** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 09:51 am

To sum up what has been said:

Transfusion isn't currently pushing the limits of DarkPlaces, so it therefore wouldn't be pushing the limits of any other engine. DarkPlaces is completely free and open and versitile, and gives us room to expand beyond the Blood remake project if we wish. It isn't bound by requiring any other game (even Blood oddly enough), and we have all the tools we need for it, and the few people working on this project don't feel a change would be beneficial.

Yes, there will eventually be content beyond that of what was in Blood, and it won't be as bound, but that is for when we get there.

Zardoz · Post by **Zardoz** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:04 am

Cruaich

The idea would be to push the limits of what DP can do. Except that beyond enhanced architexture and lighting, I'd realy like to see well places examples of normal mapping. (The light debth illusion you see with the Doom3 and new Unreal engine demos, for thoes who dont know.) Stone carvings, tree bark, things of that nature.

Hmm, that would certainly make for awsome screen shots. To be honest I'd rather hide the texture flaws with good ol' q2 colored lighting.
It's quicker and eminantly doable. remember the screen shots on the coverbox for b2? That was all done in red lighting- cranked up those expectations the first time you saw it I bet.

boss

Anyways I think the maps should stay exactly the same as they were in Blood. Except for odd bugs like that one map with the floating pot (I forget which one)

I agree. I'm just thinking in terms of how the maps look in 3d lighting. In mapedit the mapper can alter the appearence of a tile from + x number to -y number. In otherwords every single tile in blood has been altered from its average. when a transfusion mapper slaps converted tile 0222 on some vertices, its simply the *averaged* tile from blood. So no- Transfusion will never *feel* like blood. I'm no fan of depth lighting, bump mapping and so forth.
I'm just trying to get some cool screenshots!
Why am I trying to tell you this stuff- you know dp and build better than I do!

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:09 am

A few years ago, when I first played TF, I also thought DP is obsolete. But after I played Nexuiz, and I saw the Zymotic screenshots, I loved it.

It has its own skeletal animated model format, it supports advanced shader technologies, it can render beautiful HDR and bloom, it supports MD3 models, it supports bump mapping, and it has a loads of other great features.

TF now looks ugly because it's currently uses the old 8 bit Blood textures and sprtites, it uses the old Q1 map format compiled with the old Q1 lightmapper, and it has extremely low-poly models. But it's under heavy development, so these things are changed soon.

predator · Post by **predator** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:21 am

Escorter wrote:it uses the old Q1 map format

Not anymore. Beta3 was the last release based on q1 bsp format.

Old (q1) on the left, newer (q3) on the right:

Zardoz · Post by **Zardoz** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:23 am

At the risk of digression, can anyone explain single cell texturing?
Is that something that might be useful to transfusion?

predator · Post by **predator** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:45 am

Three additional shots for the curious:

These two show usage of liquid shaders: