Hi Hellen,
Thanks for making your opinions more clear. This is much better.
So, you've neither played the Pyramid or some of the other levels. I can't imagine why you yourself would play Sect war for more than 2 min. without quiting after saying "Oh puleeez" and then go on to find something of a different level, frustrating enough to quit totally. The only possibility is that it was too tough for you. No biggie. Gods had the same effect on me. I could'nt crack it for a long time. Heck, I could'nt complete "Death Row" in Duke-3D shareware for months. It got damn frustrating. But I did eventually and it was awesome. Same case here. (Oh and I was stuck in Painkiller's asylum level for weeks, I wanted to quit)
SPOILER WARNING
That big city level with the zoo, train station and all in ep 1 - I agree with most of what you said. Its nothing like the first level so the case of relativism plays into your mind. You tell yourself "Uh oh. Quality drop, should I not proceed?".
But the fact really is that it does'nt go downhill from there. Lets go to Ep2. In fact, the level where you are forced to sneak past an entire army with no weapons using stealth was really cool. You then get to come back, fully armed and get revenge! Then going on to fighting gargoyles on mountaneous slopes was difficult. This level is huge but it constitutes an entire episode. The next one ofcourse, is just a boss level (for the plot's sake?) and is simple.
Third episode is what you have'nt tried at all and its pretty huge. All the levels are good. The garden level is really neat and the Pyramid is something on the lines of the first level. If Gila was freaked out by whispers, I'd really want to here what he felt in this level? Theres an aztec-like level here also which may be frustrating and its huge too. But besides these two levels, that town one and the aztec one, all the others are consistant in quality, more or less, with the rain, escape, garden and pyramid levels really being path breakers.
Bloodlines is awesome too but it was too easy to complete. Way too easy. For such levels, I'd like to spend some more time exploring them and thats what was forced upon us in Carnage. So what I often do in Bloodlines is load up the levels and just go exploring them for the sake of the feel. Ofcourse I'm sure some others feel otherwise and quick progression is more important to them. But if you're like me, you like atmosphere more than action but Carnage had plenty of both.
Actually, Bloodlines is also similar to Carnage. Felix's, Hades's and DaMann's levels were outstanding (but sadly, very little fighting in all of them) and the rest were not of the same quality. The cemetary, plane and cathedral levels were just fillers but to be fair to them, they were never actually completed.
Both efforts have merged new content (sounds/textures) seamlessly into the levels and gameplay. Only thing is that Bloodlines used Redneck Rampage textures and you may not get the desired effect if you've already played that game. It does have the advantage of being released years earlier though.
I don't like Cryptic passage that much. The levels are simple, straightforward and easy. Limited use of new textures and no cool new sounds. Themes were repeated using "More of the same" formula. In fact, Banzai's Blood maps has some levels which are better done than cryptic passage. Plasma level's simply sucked.
Since you like Bosses and neat ideas, although isolated, you'd probably like Gods. So check it out. You are certainly going to be impressed by the monster in the last level. It does'nt fight you but it shows mastery of mapedit.
Regards
Zardoz,
You can make new Voxels but you can't add them to Blood. You could do that in Shadow Warrior and their addons produced some awesome new voxels. You can never make a voxel with complicated geometry using azimuth view inputs. The editor would crash. It was poor of monolith to not support voxel editing in Blood. You could extract the voxel related files (dat and ini) but modifying them produced nothing. This is ironic since Monolith (and not 3DRealms) were bragging about Voxels in magazine interviews since the very beginning.[/b]
Really Creative Blood Bosses
Moderator: General Discussion Moderators
Im personally quite fond of e2m5.
I might try more usermade levels, if I could A.) see a single download link and B.) find one that doesnt involve replacing multiple files through some sketchy batch file that presupposes i keep Blood in c:\games\blood or some sort.
Honestly, if youre going to mod Blood, focus 150% on the levels. It can do levels, and they can be damn cool (see Blood, Plasma Pack, and Cryptic Passage as examples). If you want to do more than that, wait for Transfusion where you can easily amend the gamecode and content.
I might try more usermade levels, if I could A.) see a single download link and B.) find one that doesnt involve replacing multiple files through some sketchy batch file that presupposes i keep Blood in c:\games\blood or some sort.
Honestly, if youre going to mod Blood, focus 150% on the levels. It can do levels, and they can be damn cool (see Blood, Plasma Pack, and Cryptic Passage as examples). If you want to do more than that, wait for Transfusion where you can easily amend the gamecode and content.
dude, what addons???You could do that in Shadow Warrior and their addons produced some awesome new voxels.
as for what you said about cryptic passage - so what if it's more of the same? some ideas just don't work for blood; they just don't. cryptic authors did their bet on one thing they could do at the time - the levels. mind you, blood didn't support tiles.art files > than 015 in number until the release of one unit whole blood, but it was too late since the modding scene for the game was pretty much dead.
they did what they could do best - and they did fine job since levels in cryptic passage all look amazing. and you know what was the general review for it? it was "a 10-level episode set with levels even better than the original".
about plasma pak - it's a very complicated issue; the half of this episode are the levels that were found even in blood alpha. but the levels in plasma still had at least quality and feel of completeness, unlike most of the out-of proportion garbage that most user levels are.
oh and btw, so what if the addon doesn't have the new sounds and new music? you won't dissmiss a good made addon without new sounds, would you? as for most userlevel episodes, the usage of new textures and new sounds are marked like one of the greatest fearures in the world, almost like an excuse. "well, we have 15 new levels, so what if they're not as quality and polished as the standard requires, but fudge that - we know how to use new music and new sounds". it's like a gimmick.
s***. when my exams are over, i gotta play gods, banzai and all the addons that were mentioned here. to refresh my memory. then i can be more specific about each other one's crappy stuff.
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Guest
There were at least 3 Shadow warrior addons, Twin Dragon, Last Warrior and Tonight Never Ends, which featured new voxels. These were the best S/W addons (they used to call them TCs) with levels far better than those found in the original game. If you played them you'll know the limits to which the respective engines and games can be pushed.
I went back and played Cryptic passage today. All 10 levels.
My impressions are the same. They've gone for outright simple designs, no great puzzles (all you did was take the key to the door) or ideas or special effects. Besides the mountain pass artwork, everything else looks out of place. What you have is a compact, simple, neat, piece of work. But the risk factors? A big zero. Innovation? Zero. Freshness? Zero.
I'm aware of praiseful reviews about CP but it only has levels which are better than the Plasma Pak ones. In that regard, they were compared favourably against Monolith themselves. Were the levels better than the ones in Blood itself? Absolutely not. Not one level in CP is comparable to Blood's train, lumbermill, shipwreck, aquarium, Carnival.....all of them!
The reason Cryptic is so famous, I imagine, is that it came out so early, when there were nothing else. But you wanted "More of the same", you can download atleast 15 stand-alone maps, Banzai's Blood addon, Gods, Inherit the Earth, Legend of Ravenloft etc etc I doubt anyone actually feels that Cryptic passage is good enough to justify itself as a commercial product. How many of us actually paid for Cryptic Passage as they expected us to?
Now put yourself in the shoes of the Bloodlines or Carnage developers? When they have the skills why should they be lost in the existing crowd and create just another ordinary map pack? Both pushed Blood to the limit. It eventually overwhelmed them and they could only release betas.
I imagine Headhunter and Reactor could have also done the same but they played safe and released an ordinary map pack but those levels cracked open mapedit!
Neither included sounds or textures just for the heck of it. Be it the blasting Thunder, or the Ghostly party, screaming victims in a burning train, evil laughs and bone chilling Pyramid Whispers in Carnage or the Twilight zone song, the sound of the 16fps film reel and spooky sounds in Bloodlines, all of them blended extensively with the feel of their levels and added to atmosphere and gameplay. Similarly, they extensively used new Textures to give a new look for the environment, yet maintain the Bloody feel and the theme of their levels without ever making them look out of place in Blood.
Sure, the new Businessman enemy in Bloodlines looked much worse than the Axe Zombie but his insane "I seeeee you....heheheeeheeee" voice and new animation, added some freshness and to the gameplay. It felt different and new. Its not as if they changed everything. The crow, which replaced the bat, looked horrible though.
When you talk about adding sounds and textures just for the hell of it, you really refer to stuff like Secta - Duke's Space textures in Blood, Starwars themes!! C'mon, this is different stuff. Gimmicks? Sure. There are plenty of examples which use them (and I only found that out this year) but there are also some which do not use them with no function in gameplay.
I'm totally sick and tired of the same old rooms, environments, alleyways, grass, mountains etc etc. I wanted to see some new stuff. At the same time, I don't want a "Total Conversion" and I want them to keep Blood at the heart of it. Shadow Warrior Addons, Quake's Zerstorer, Blood's Bloodlines and Carnage etc are fine examples of the same. The latter two never compromised the Bloody feel of the original.
BTW Hellen, I read your comments at postmortem about RATM and I must say that you're a very smart person. You're right when you say that when one developer starts bragging about his "yet to be released" product going to "kickass! Be the very best.", it ultimately turns out to be nothing but a load of crap. After reading DD's very critical review of Bloodlines, I got the impression that his SIN campaign was the best level pack for Blood ever designed. Guess what? It turns out to only be slightly better than SectWar.
"Rage Against The Machine". Pulleeeez. You guys HAVE to come up with a better name than that. Get that right first if you want to be taken seriously.
Use new content. Blend them into gameplay. Fiddle with mapedit as much as possible and amaze us. Don't give us the "more of the same" BS or your addon will only be as good as ones released 8 years ago, AT BEST. Even so, I don't imagine that addon being released anytime this year.
Just my 2(0) cents.
I went back and played Cryptic passage today. All 10 levels.
My impressions are the same. They've gone for outright simple designs, no great puzzles (all you did was take the key to the door) or ideas or special effects. Besides the mountain pass artwork, everything else looks out of place. What you have is a compact, simple, neat, piece of work. But the risk factors? A big zero. Innovation? Zero. Freshness? Zero.
I'm aware of praiseful reviews about CP but it only has levels which are better than the Plasma Pak ones. In that regard, they were compared favourably against Monolith themselves. Were the levels better than the ones in Blood itself? Absolutely not. Not one level in CP is comparable to Blood's train, lumbermill, shipwreck, aquarium, Carnival.....all of them!
The reason Cryptic is so famous, I imagine, is that it came out so early, when there were nothing else. But you wanted "More of the same", you can download atleast 15 stand-alone maps, Banzai's Blood addon, Gods, Inherit the Earth, Legend of Ravenloft etc etc I doubt anyone actually feels that Cryptic passage is good enough to justify itself as a commercial product. How many of us actually paid for Cryptic Passage as they expected us to?
Now put yourself in the shoes of the Bloodlines or Carnage developers? When they have the skills why should they be lost in the existing crowd and create just another ordinary map pack? Both pushed Blood to the limit. It eventually overwhelmed them and they could only release betas.
I imagine Headhunter and Reactor could have also done the same but they played safe and released an ordinary map pack but those levels cracked open mapedit!
Neither included sounds or textures just for the heck of it. Be it the blasting Thunder, or the Ghostly party, screaming victims in a burning train, evil laughs and bone chilling Pyramid Whispers in Carnage or the Twilight zone song, the sound of the 16fps film reel and spooky sounds in Bloodlines, all of them blended extensively with the feel of their levels and added to atmosphere and gameplay. Similarly, they extensively used new Textures to give a new look for the environment, yet maintain the Bloody feel and the theme of their levels without ever making them look out of place in Blood.
Sure, the new Businessman enemy in Bloodlines looked much worse than the Axe Zombie but his insane "I seeeee you....heheheeeheeee" voice and new animation, added some freshness and to the gameplay. It felt different and new. Its not as if they changed everything. The crow, which replaced the bat, looked horrible though.
When you talk about adding sounds and textures just for the hell of it, you really refer to stuff like Secta - Duke's Space textures in Blood, Starwars themes!! C'mon, this is different stuff. Gimmicks? Sure. There are plenty of examples which use them (and I only found that out this year) but there are also some which do not use them with no function in gameplay.
I'm totally sick and tired of the same old rooms, environments, alleyways, grass, mountains etc etc. I wanted to see some new stuff. At the same time, I don't want a "Total Conversion" and I want them to keep Blood at the heart of it. Shadow Warrior Addons, Quake's Zerstorer, Blood's Bloodlines and Carnage etc are fine examples of the same. The latter two never compromised the Bloody feel of the original.
BTW Hellen, I read your comments at postmortem about RATM and I must say that you're a very smart person. You're right when you say that when one developer starts bragging about his "yet to be released" product going to "kickass! Be the very best.", it ultimately turns out to be nothing but a load of crap. After reading DD's very critical review of Bloodlines, I got the impression that his SIN campaign was the best level pack for Blood ever designed. Guess what? It turns out to only be slightly better than SectWar.
"Rage Against The Machine". Pulleeeez. You guys HAVE to come up with a better name than that. Get that right first if you want to be taken seriously.
Use new content. Blend them into gameplay. Fiddle with mapedit as much as possible and amaze us. Don't give us the "more of the same" BS or your addon will only be as good as ones released 8 years ago, AT BEST. Even so, I don't imagine that addon being released anytime this year.
Just my 2(0) cents.
To compare Bloodlines with Carnage: Bloodlines is an outstanding work, Carnage is a mediocre creation full of stereotypes. Please, don’t put these two in one row. Face it, there will never be another Nightmare on 15 fps or Gallery of Dreams. Carnage, though it does have great levels(as I’ve said earlier), is far away from playing in one league with Bloodlines. I believe what I was broken to believe.
That’s all I’m going to say.
PS: Right, let’s everybody own DD!
That’s all I’m going to say.
PS: Right, let’s everybody own DD!
I will give Carnage points for being a complete episode pack for Blood. It has risen to tackle the technical aspects of Blood's build engine in adding new game media, although I still haven’t been able to get the cutseens to play.
I've recently reinstalled Win98 on a second hard drive. Now I have to ask, do I want to play the first episode again to see if the cutseens will play (they never did play for me, and yes it deserves to be said X number of times). And I have to say, I don't really have a desire to play Carnage levels over again. They weren’t especially fun or rewarding on a gameplay level. Somehow, and I don't know why, a lot of game developers equate hard (not just challenging) with fun. With Carnage I get the feeling that beyond the first few levels which had some good theme elements to them, I'm just being beat up for walking down the main street of Harry's home town.
Blood has the simple beauty that its levels are concise and well themed. Its industrial levels are full of items you would see in a saw mill or a metal refinery and they are clear for what they are meant to be. They don’t go on and say "and the next to that I have a movie theater, and next to that I have an electrical plant, and then next to that I have a zoo, and then next to that I have a cultist fortress, and then next to that I have a strip mall..." all in the same level. They spaced it out and really focused on the location at hand.
For the most part, from what I've seen of ÐÐ's maps, he's captured that feel. His maps are generally of a single place and he's flushed it out with supporting environmental ambiance. Take his zoo level for example. It's not just a row of rooms with dudes in it. It's got an environment to it. It has a main entrance off a street with trees and a row of buildings, a side walk etc., it has a reception area where you would expect a secretary and then it has an office like hallway with all the dudes you care to test. The only way I could see it done better would be to have an "Armory" room off the main reception area rather than having the armor & weapons off just in the street outside.
To equate one with the other I would say Harry is an Engineer with some good ideas where as ÐÐ is an Architect that knows how to make it all fit together.
I've recently reinstalled Win98 on a second hard drive. Now I have to ask, do I want to play the first episode again to see if the cutseens will play (they never did play for me, and yes it deserves to be said X number of times). And I have to say, I don't really have a desire to play Carnage levels over again. They weren’t especially fun or rewarding on a gameplay level. Somehow, and I don't know why, a lot of game developers equate hard (not just challenging) with fun. With Carnage I get the feeling that beyond the first few levels which had some good theme elements to them, I'm just being beat up for walking down the main street of Harry's home town.
Blood has the simple beauty that its levels are concise and well themed. Its industrial levels are full of items you would see in a saw mill or a metal refinery and they are clear for what they are meant to be. They don’t go on and say "and the next to that I have a movie theater, and next to that I have an electrical plant, and then next to that I have a zoo, and then next to that I have a cultist fortress, and then next to that I have a strip mall..." all in the same level. They spaced it out and really focused on the location at hand.
For the most part, from what I've seen of ÐÐ's maps, he's captured that feel. His maps are generally of a single place and he's flushed it out with supporting environmental ambiance. Take his zoo level for example. It's not just a row of rooms with dudes in it. It's got an environment to it. It has a main entrance off a street with trees and a row of buildings, a side walk etc., it has a reception area where you would expect a secretary and then it has an office like hallway with all the dudes you care to test. The only way I could see it done better would be to have an "Armory" room off the main reception area rather than having the armor & weapons off just in the street outside.
To equate one with the other I would say Harry is an Engineer with some good ideas where as ÐÐ is an Architect that knows how to make it all fit together.
dude, are you on crack? what are you smoking? no offence, but even recently released official addon "wanton destruction" manages to be on par with retail levels. shadow warrior levels are great. sure the game should've been released earlier. i think they just didn't want to waste it. anyway, there were some great levels in the tc's you mentioned, yes, but more than the half of these tc's levels were above average userlevel crap.There were at least 3 Shadow warrior addons, Twin Dragon, Last Warrior and Tonight Never Ends, which featured new voxels. These were the best S/W addons (they used to call them TCs) with levels far better than those found in the original game. If you played them you'll know the limits to which the respective engines and games can be pushed.
super complex puzzles don't work in blood. they did 100% good job on everything, check out the details. cryptic passage is three times more detailed and polished than any user addon for blood i've seen.My impressions are the same. They've gone for outright simple designs, no great puzzles (all you did was take the key to the door) or ideas or special effects. Besides the mountain pass artwork, everything else looks out of place. What you have is a compact, simple, neat, piece of work. But the risk factors? A big zero. Innovation? Zero. Freshness? Zero.
bloodlines was ruined by the amount of work they took, my opinion. they should've not redraw monsters as it's just f*** ugly (same goes for some redraws in shadow warrior addons). the cutscenes were ugly. only the levels and the atmosphere was great.Now put yourself in the shoes of the Bloodlines or Carnage developers? When they have the skills why should they be lost in the existing crowd and create just another ordinary map pack? Both pushed Blood to the limit. It eventually overwhelmed them and they could only release betas. I imagine Headhunter and Reactor could have also done the same but they played safe and released an ordinary map pack but those levels cracked open mapedit!
it was all ugly and irrelevant.Sure, the new Businessman enemy in Bloodlines looked much worse than the Axe Zombie but his insane "I seeeee you....heheheeeheeee" voice and new animation, added some freshness and to the gameplay. It felt different and new. Its not as if they changed everything. The crow, which replaced the bat, looked horrible though.
zerstorer sucks, seriously. only half of it is good to my taste.I'm totally sick and tired of the same old rooms, environments, alleyways, grass, mountains etc etc. I wanted to see some new stuff. At the same time, I don't want a "Total Conversion" and I want them to keep Blood at the heart of it. Shadow Warrior Addons, Quake's Zerstorer, Blood's Bloodlines and Carnage etc are fine examples of the same. The latter two never compromised the Bloody feel of the original.
yes, but do it with style and don't do half-assed jobs. i've yet to see better stuff. bloodlines excluded of course.Use new content. Blend them into gameplay. Fiddle with mapedit as much as possible and amaze us. Don't give us the "more of the same" BS or your addon will only be as good as ones released 8 years ago, AT BEST. Even so, I don't imagine that addon being released anytime this year.
Just my 2(0) cents.
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Guest
Hellen,
There was already a nightmare at 15 fps. Its a 1920 German impressionist film called The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari on which the level is based on. The gallery of dreams is based on existing paintings. Now, knowing this, how the hell can you call anything else stereotyped? Both levels were supposed to tie in with a story which would have completed them. Where else have you seen Rain and Floods, a pyramid, stealth tactics, ladders, jump-pads, rotating resteraunts, flame bots, an oil tanker, jumping out of volcanoes..etc etc etc. Stereotyped indeed. You think SectWar is good for exactly 2 features so don't go telling me to put this in the league of that or the other. Just go play stuff till the end first. You dont want to? Not interested? Bored? No problem. Just dont give us half assed reviews after playing 30% of something.
Gilla,
Just because someone else sees things differently, has different perspectives does'nt mean they're on crack. For some example of pushing Build to its limits, see the Last Warrior's airport level which had a complete airliner in full 3D. They had translucent water flooding a crashed aircraft. None of their new weapons in Last Warrior looked ugly, they looked better than the originals. There were voxels for all of them. There were only two new enemies and they looked better than the original (the female ninja was bad artwork). You probably also think voxels are ugly as well. Why did those Monolith morons ever waste their time with them?
Cryptic does'nt need to be compared to those either. It sucks even compared to Banzai. It sucks compared to Inherit the Earth. The fact that they expected us to actually buy it makes it a piece of crap. They had financial motivation behind their professional effort. The fact that all the rest did better for no financial gain makes a big difference. There was no great architecture, no innovation, no scares, no surprises, no story, no new feel, no new ideas, no new features and no major alteration of the environment. It was highly polished no doubt, but it wasn't even as detailed as the original Blood levels. We are supposed to compare this to similar commercial addons like Dissolution of Eternity and Armageddon?
What bugs me is that Sunstorm probably had all the talent needed but they were way too conservative with Cryptic.
First time I've ever heard that puzzles and traps are useless in Blood. Carnage, Gods, Bloodlines are all loaded with those. Your fellow Bloodites who are no less than you, who love Blood enough to waste their time making those addons for no financial gain etc seem to completely differ on that. Perhaps you should ask its makers to explain what they were thinking (or smoking) in another thread?
Maybe I'm brainwashed by the extensive innovation in Gods and expect something like that in other addons but if I see any more simple levels with the same old streets, town, cathedral, snow, airplanes etc I'm gonna vomit.
Cruiach,
I don't see any great architecture in SIN. Street? Office? You find that everywhere. Look at the aircraft and snow levels. They are noobie style. I dont know how anyone can put that in the league of any other map pack?
I sincerely hope that these are DD's first few levels and attempts at mapedit. If they are his nth levels, I have nothing nice to say.
Sorry developers!
I guess you did'nt even go to Ep-2?
There was already a nightmare at 15 fps. Its a 1920 German impressionist film called The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari on which the level is based on. The gallery of dreams is based on existing paintings. Now, knowing this, how the hell can you call anything else stereotyped? Both levels were supposed to tie in with a story which would have completed them. Where else have you seen Rain and Floods, a pyramid, stealth tactics, ladders, jump-pads, rotating resteraunts, flame bots, an oil tanker, jumping out of volcanoes..etc etc etc. Stereotyped indeed. You think SectWar is good for exactly 2 features so don't go telling me to put this in the league of that or the other. Just go play stuff till the end first. You dont want to? Not interested? Bored? No problem. Just dont give us half assed reviews after playing 30% of something.
Gilla,
Just because someone else sees things differently, has different perspectives does'nt mean they're on crack. For some example of pushing Build to its limits, see the Last Warrior's airport level which had a complete airliner in full 3D. They had translucent water flooding a crashed aircraft. None of their new weapons in Last Warrior looked ugly, they looked better than the originals. There were voxels for all of them. There were only two new enemies and they looked better than the original (the female ninja was bad artwork). You probably also think voxels are ugly as well. Why did those Monolith morons ever waste their time with them?
Cryptic does'nt need to be compared to those either. It sucks even compared to Banzai. It sucks compared to Inherit the Earth. The fact that they expected us to actually buy it makes it a piece of crap. They had financial motivation behind their professional effort. The fact that all the rest did better for no financial gain makes a big difference. There was no great architecture, no innovation, no scares, no surprises, no story, no new feel, no new ideas, no new features and no major alteration of the environment. It was highly polished no doubt, but it wasn't even as detailed as the original Blood levels. We are supposed to compare this to similar commercial addons like Dissolution of Eternity and Armageddon?
What bugs me is that Sunstorm probably had all the talent needed but they were way too conservative with Cryptic.
First time I've ever heard that puzzles and traps are useless in Blood. Carnage, Gods, Bloodlines are all loaded with those. Your fellow Bloodites who are no less than you, who love Blood enough to waste their time making those addons for no financial gain etc seem to completely differ on that. Perhaps you should ask its makers to explain what they were thinking (or smoking) in another thread?
Exactly. Your taste. Does'nt make it the universal truth. Does'nt mean others are smoking crack.only half of it is good to my taste.
Maybe I'm brainwashed by the extensive innovation in Gods and expect something like that in other addons but if I see any more simple levels with the same old streets, town, cathedral, snow, airplanes etc I'm gonna vomit.
You know, that one "Twilight Zone" song made the entire level work in Bloodlines. Thats the kind of integration I want and got.only the levels and the atmosphere was great.
Cruiach,
I don't see any great architecture in SIN. Street? Office? You find that everywhere. Look at the aircraft and snow levels. They are noobie style. I dont know how anyone can put that in the league of any other map pack?
I sincerely hope that these are DD's first few levels and attempts at mapedit. If they are his nth levels, I have nothing nice to say.
Use "mario".Somehow, and I don't know why, a lot of game developers equate hard (not just challenging) with fun. With Carnage I get the feeling that beyond the first few levels which had some good theme elements to them, I'm just being beat up for walking down the main street of Harry's home town.
Sorry developers!
I guess you did'nt even go to Ep-2?
I can't agree more. Buts thats just that goddamn Town level.They don’t go on and say "and the next to that I have a movie theater, and next to that I have an electrical plant, and then next to that I have a zoo, and then next to that I have a cultist fortress, and then next to that I have a strip mall..." all in the same level. They spaced it out and really focused on the location at hand.
Okay you don't get my analogy. Architects design spaces with elements aesthetic to a living/working environment. Engineers design functional objects and are horrified when Architects do silly like putting windows in them.Anonymous Coward wrote:Cruiach,
I don't see any great architecture in SIN. Street? Office? You find that everywhere. Look at the aircraft and snow levels. They are noobie style. I dont know how anyone can put that in the league of any other map pack?
I sincerely hope that these are DD's first few levels and attempts at mapedit. If they are his nth levels, I have nothing nice to say.
And yes, as far as I know his SIN campaign was a compilation of his first public levels. But even then you can tell he does not suffer from AD/HD. I'll admit that he could do with more of a fantastic flair, but every consecutive map I've seen out of him has been better and more detailed. His zoo map "Monster testing labs" was just the latest of his maps I've been able to test.
No I haven't because, as I said twice in my last post, the Carnage campaign cutseens DID NOT WORK!!! And quite frankly I didn't care to use the mario code to get to e2m2. If you just have to rely on the levels to motivate the player to play more, as a whole Carnage, Ep1 comes up lacking.I guess you did'nt even go to Ep-2?
Here's a clue. Blood Shareware, did not come with cutseens but led to selling thousands of copies... why? Because it was fun to play, go figure!
I was talking about Bloodlines levels actually, not their real prototypes. There will never be anything as neat and original as them in Blood history,There was already a nightmare at 15 fps. Its a 1920 German impressionist film called The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari on which the level is based on. The gallery of dreams is based on existing paintings.
Who else has ever tried to make surrealistic Dali’s paintings interactive? Or to create a ‘reflecting street’ (I’m talking about Gallery of Dreams again) so natural, you start believing it’s not Build, but some fancy modern engine.
Firstly, you should learn what the term ‘stereotype’ means. I can’t agree recreation of a movie, etc. can be called a stereotype.
1. Duke Nukem ‘Flood Zone’Where else have you seen Rain and Floods, a pyramid, stealth tactics, ladders, jump-pads, rotating resteraunts, flame bots, an oil tanker, jumping out of volcanoes..etc etc etc.
, Bloodlines ‘Morgue’. Nah, I really don’t have anything against rain; 2. Pyramids don’t really match with Blood; 3. This is where I have to agree, though I didn’t like this feature at all; 4. LifeKILLED’s Secta. He invented ladders long ago before Carnage, though I liked Carnage’s ‘sprite’ ladders better than his ‘elevator’ ones. 5. This is where I have to agree, I liked jumping pads. 6. WTF? 7. You mean moving flame bots? They were extremely buggy anyway. 8. Oil tanker isn’t a special feature. 9. This is where I have to agree, jumping out of volcano was a pain in ass. You are a very brave man to say nasty things like that.Cryptic does'nt need to be compared to those either. It sucks even compared to Banzai. It sucks compared to Inherit the Earth.
Hey, it seems you know, what a ‘stereotype’ is!if I see any more simple levels with the same old streets, town, cathedral, snow, airplanes etc I'm gonna vomit.
Indeed, Carnage didn’t have streets, mines, caves, labs…
Haha! You’ve got the point! That’s an eternal conflict for me as I’m both an engineer and an architect.Architects design spaces with elements aesthetic to a living/working environment. Engineers design functional objects and are horrified when Architects do silly like putting windows in them.
Enough of the guest posting for me…
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Guest
I don't see any aesthetic in SIN. Nothing (sectors) was in proportionate size either. Nothing architecturally good. No great lighting. Now compensate for all that and you'll get a traditional, scaled-down, Blood-1 level. Is it really unfair to ask for something different after 9 years and 500+ usermade levels?Architects design spaces with elements aesthetic to a living/working environment. Engineers design functional objects and are horrified when Architects do silly like putting windows in them.
If you would say that SIN (the first level) was simply fun to play, I'd agree but there is no great design. Period. I never said that DD has no skills.
Montest was just rooms with switches which generated monsters? Why would anyone even want to play that?
Hellen,
Don't argue just for the sake of it!Duke Nukem ‘Flood Zone’ , Bloodlines ‘Morgue’.
Neat as in implementation? Agree. Original? No. Though I may be a bit harsh here for in looking for scratch built ideas. I agree with you that those designs were really really really good but once again, its not the entire addon and that argument was not even stated first by me.There will never be anything as neat and original as them in Blood history,
It was reflecting water and reflection in build has been done long before.Or to create a ‘reflecting street’
What I really like about that scene is the ambient spooky sound.
You don't like Mines either do you? What can I say? These are specific preferences. Either way, you have'nt even played those levels. But you won't like em anyway since they are puzzle intensive.Pyramids don’t really match with Blood;
Atleast they did'nt look as if they've been cut and paste from Blood. You know what I mean. Same old building textures plus the same old streets plus the same old cathedrals. I don't mean the concept themselves but actual implementation.Indeed, Carnage didn’t have streets, mines, caves, labs…
ok, this begins to be too long for me to read, i'm in the middle of exams so i'm lazy to discuss this.
know this, this is the universal truth:
some ideas are great, no doubt about it.
but.
in 90% of the cases, when implemented, they look horrendous in build engine. sorry. that's life. addons/art/maps/etc should be polished. i've only seen this in rare occasions, and twin dragon/the last warrior/whateverelse for shadow warrior were only half-polished. nice weapons in last warrior? the weapon "holding" sprites were imported from hicolor images and were more blurry than the original, plus when you walk in dark areas some pixels remained fullbright effect.
just wait a bit when i'm done with my exams. i have to review all the addons/packs, plus i've promised it here to some people.
know this, this is the universal truth:
some ideas are great, no doubt about it.
but.
in 90% of the cases, when implemented, they look horrendous in build engine. sorry. that's life. addons/art/maps/etc should be polished. i've only seen this in rare occasions, and twin dragon/the last warrior/whateverelse for shadow warrior were only half-polished. nice weapons in last warrior? the weapon "holding" sprites were imported from hicolor images and were more blurry than the original, plus when you walk in dark areas some pixels remained fullbright effect.
just wait a bit when i'm done with my exams. i have to review all the addons/packs, plus i've promised it here to some people.
