ZBlood*X*

Discuss and hash out the Blood universe here.

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ZBlood*X*

Post by N0t_mINe » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:49 pm

This is a fork of Zblood or Zblood plus, I'm not sure which. Unlike the original Zblood the focus here is multiplayer, as the old skulltag port (now called Zandronum) is being used. Ivan, Zblood*X*'s dev., has a faithful blood replication on his mind. Please take note of the plasma pack incinerator alt fire in the following vid.
Here's the youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 2WnItwW_L4

And the original thread over at Zandronum:

http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=470
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Re: ZBlood*X*

Post by Tchernobog » Thu Jul 05, 2012 05:54 pm

Yet another fork?

Though I do admit, that video does look nice.
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Re: ZBlood*X*

Post by N0t_mINe » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:36 pm

Amazing isn't it? Zblood forked from Bloodtc and later turned into (G)Zblood+...I think. (G)Zblood+ has gone through so many devs I'm not sure if the team size has increased or the lead dev hat has gone from one person to another. ZbloodX is strictly for skulltag (now Zandronum) while Hypertension succumbed to a limited engine/ lack of mappers. All three of these projects started with vanilla Bloodtc for doom as the base.
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Re: ZBlood*X*

Post by dosgamer000 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:04 am

I did have an interest in Zblood a while back because of of how great some of the fanmade GZDoom wads were (The Ultimate Torment and Torture for example.) I thought "Wow! you can make maps like this for Zblood!" Assuming that ZDoom and GZdoom have similar properties, you can also make fanmade monsters and weapons for Zblood like a lot of Doom wads have. Not to say that this wasn't done for original Blood but I haven't see new cultist types or original weapons for Blood so far. I guess what I really saw was a future of Blood maps using the features of ZDoom or GZDoom. I suppose I still think it's a good idea even though I don't mess around with Zblood anymore.
Last edited by dosgamer000 on Tue Jul 10, 2012 06:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ZBlood*X*

Post by N0t_mINe » Sat Jul 07, 2012 05:18 pm

@dosgamer000

The many forks of Zblood should be seen as a tribute to your ideas if not your efforts. As we both know, Zdoom has come a loooong way since you started your work. I wish it had been this sophisticated when you started.

Youtube: Free Polyobjects

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry-BHkSxx1c

Youtube: 3D floors

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Av9qz2_fA
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Re: ZBlood*X*

Post by dosgamer000 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 07:45 pm

N0t_mINe wrote:@dosgamer000

The many forks of Zblood should be seen as a tribute to your ideas if not your efforts. As we both know, Zdoom has come a loooong way since you started your work. I wish it had been this sophisticated when you started.

Youtube: Free Polyobjects

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry-BHkSxx1c

Youtube: 3D floors

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Av9qz2_fA
I never did any real work at all for Zblood or zdoom mods. The most I did was drawings for new enemy types on a book and making an episode list of new levels. Having never modded in my life, I was just me thinking about stuff I'd like to see happen. Nothing really on a computer, sorry if I mislead you. About those videos, I believe Blood has those same features? Pretty interesting, I wonder if it is harder to mode for Doom/Zdoom engine or BUILD.
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Re: ZBlood*X*

Post by N0t_mINe » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:27 am

My bad on the mis-identification.

The original build engine had several clever tricks for faking 3d structures like sector stacking in DN3D and mirror stacking specifically in Blood. These involved changing out geometry when triggered by the player or the sneaky use of portals. modern 2.5D engines like Zdoom and EDuke32 have better techniques such as floor over floor, 3d floors (EDGE, GZdoom) or just recently, True room over room in eduke32. These more modern methods involve forcing the engine to create a genuine 3d structure using inverted planes, infinite floors and what not. The second video above is a new system of 3d floors just added to Zdoom.

As for Free polyobjects, thats strictly a Doom thing as the Doom engine is restricted to a bsp tree for node placement. Polyobjects as I understand them, are a special linedef, not a true sector, so it offers some ability to move geometry besides doom's traditional horizontal limit. Usually polyobjects are used to draw slopes and create sideways moving doors n' such. Free polyobjects as seen in the video above can move across sector lines (a big no-no with older hexen style polyobjects) allowing for more usage of this technique. I'm eager to see what Zdoom modders do with this new ability.

Build on the other hand has no bsp tree for nodes, so the map can be dynamically redrawn on the fly. That means sectors can be given routes to run along vertically; just recall the pig cop car in the original Duke3d. Build engine games make much greater use of moving geometry to say the least.

Not bad for a total non mapper :P
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Re: ZBlood*X*

Post by dosgamer000 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 06:03 am

N0t_mINe wrote:My bad on the mis-identification.

The original build engine had several clever tricks for faking 3d structures like sector stacking in DN3D and mirror stacking specifically in Blood. These involved changing out geometry when triggered by the player or the sneaky use of portals. modern 2.5D engines like Zdoom and EDuke32 have better techniques such as floor over floor, 3d floors (EDGE, GZdoom) or just recently, True room over room in eduke32. These more modern methods involve forcing the engine to create a genuine 3d structure using inverted planes, infinite floors and what not. The second video above is a new system of 3d floors just added to Zdoom.

As for Free polyobjects, thats strictly a Doom thing as the Doom engine is restricted to a bsp tree for node placement. Polyobjects as I understand them, are a special linedef, not a true sector, so it offers some ability to move geometry besides doom's traditional horizontal limit. Usually polyobjects are used to draw slopes and create sideways moving doors n' such. Free polyobjects as seen in the video above can move across sector lines (a big no-no with older hexen style polyobjects) allowing for more usage of this technique. I'm eager to see what Zdoom modders do with this new ability.

Build on the other hand has no bsp tree for nodes, so the map can be dynamically redrawn on the fly. That means sectors can be given routes to run along vertically; just recall the pig cop car in the original Duke3d. Build engine games make much greater use of moving geometry to say the least.

Not bad for a total non mapper :P
Thanks for taking the time to type up all that info, I find it very informative. I remember that pig cop car in Freeway, I think, of Duke3D. Even at the young age I first encountered it, it resonated a fakeness to me. In alot of other games, I noticed stuff similar to that and some of the stuff you talked about, like how old school games tried to create the illusion of a real world object within the limits of their engine. One that comes to mind is "Downtown" of Doom 2. It is supposed to be a large city with a bunch of tall buildings and from the automap, it is. However, the towers don't really look alot like buildings (IMO) and more like tall blocks. They used their game engine to project an 3D (or 2D?) illusion of the real world.

Yeah, I tried to mess around with Doombuilder at one time and with MAPEDIT for Blood but both went over my head. If only there was a way you could envision what you want your level to be like, what monsters are in it, what kind of weapons and items, etc. and the game engine builds it by itself. Lazy, I suppose but still! :D
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Re: ZBlood*X*

Post by Tchernobog » Tue Jul 10, 2012 06:20 am

dosgamer000 wrote:One that comes to mind is "Downtown" of Doom 2. It is supposed to be a large city with a bunch of tall buildings and from the automap, it is. However, the towers don't really look alot like buildings (IMO) and more like tall blocks. They used their game engine to project an 3D (or 2D?) illusion of the real world.
Oddly enough I am stuck on that level of Doom II as we speak (been playing through the original Doom games again), and while I agree that it is not that realistic, it was not so much because of the geometry in my opinion but rather a lack of original textures and game objects. For instance, the original BloodTC was built on a vanilla Doom II base, and yet it managed a much more realistic urban setting based on the Blood originals than id themselves managed to do with their own game. It was not really until Duke3D that people really got that right, which is one of the main reasons it was such a groundbreaking game.
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Re: ZBlood*X*

Post by BEAST » Mon Feb 18, 2013 09:07 pm

The Lair of Shial remake for Zblood is insane! You really expanded upon it, and in similar vein of how I originally imagined the game to be like. I like that you use the original Shial as mini boss enemies throughout the level, because she really seems more like a slightly bigger spider enemy rather than a true boss. When your video ends, I expected an Overlord-sized Shial attacking you, and giving birth to retail Shials! I've always wanted Shial to be bigger, and I feel the same about Cerberus, Cheogh, and Tchernobog.
I am impressed that you recreated Blood's feel perfectly with ZDoom, and I only recently have had the pleasure to play my favorite id games on the ZDoom port (which kicks ass!). It makes me ponder what fitire Blood mods would play like if the source code does get released. Since Duke3D has the benefit of EDuke and the High Resolution Pack from its source code release, I would long to see Blood get its own EBlood and HRP... I only thought of it, because I played WG Realms 2 recently, and I absolutely loved it.
As for Dowtown failing to recreate a realistic city landscape for Doom 2, this is sadly true. However, Doom 2 is set in the deep future, and living styles have drastically changed over time. Also, the streets are covered in flat rubble, so this city block is also the result of a messed up post-apocalypse. That's why there's no beds, and badly designed demonic interiors. id could've been more realistic, but perhaps the city in Doom 2 looks that way because of a combination of impractical archetectual styles and demonic invasions. Or, because it was harder for id to replicate a small city block back in '95. :?
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Re: ZBlood*X*

Post by Tchernobog » Tue Feb 19, 2013 06:42 pm

BEAST wrote:As for Dowtown failing to recreate a realistic city landscape for Doom 2, this is sadly true. However, Doom 2 is set in the deep future, and living styles have drastically changed over time. Also, the streets are covered in flat rubble, so this city block is also the result of a messed up post-apocalypse. That's why there's no beds, and badly designed demonic interiors. id could've been more realistic, but perhaps the city in Doom 2 looks that way because of a combination of impractical archetectual styles and demonic invasions. Or, because it was harder for id to replicate a small city block back in '95. :?
Well... indeed.
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Re: ZBlood*X*

Post by BEAST » Tue Feb 19, 2013 08:28 pm

So, N0t_mINe, does a gigantic version of Shial appear at the end of this remade level or not? Considering that you have a lot of Shials appearing in this level, I thought maybe an even bigger one will await Caleb in the end.
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Re: ZBlood*X*

Post by N0t_mINe » Sun Aug 11, 2013 03:51 pm

http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3189

This is the first release of zBloodX. i don't know if it's multiplayer only or what. I'm trying to download it now myself.
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Re: ZBlood*X*

Post by Tchernobog » Sun Aug 11, 2013 06:19 pm

So this is still alive?
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Re: ZBlood*X*

Post by N0t_mINe » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:19 pm

Okay, it's multiplayer only folks. Single player is nothing but old Zblood maps with all the blood actors replaced with doom actors, weaponry appears to be Zblood stanard. What was done one the multiplayer side is a mystery as I can't log on to a server with my current connection. If you have a script blocking program you might have to use it as there's some sort of redirecting bug with this zblood*X* thread.
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