And so the war comes here. or PostMortem vs. Hypertension

Discuss and hash out the Blood universe here.

Moderator: General Discussion Moderators

User avatar
Corbin
Zealot
Posts: 158
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 09:48 pm
Location: california
Contact:

Post by Corbin »

That'd be great, but my copy of Blood gets hammered in Windows 7. =)

I wish EDGE had multiplayer so we could Bloodbath on Hypertension, that'd make a great playtest for you guys! Right now we just have what's called Coagulation, which is deathmatch...against bots...=)
User avatar
zZaRDoZz
Acolyte
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 03:13 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by zZaRDoZz »

Maybe there should be a page discussing the legal status of Transfusion on the main website? That way there is a sort of “offical document” we could point to when any legal questions pop up?
The transfusion main page still has that gaming article that says Monolith gave permission to transfusion to use all the artwork from blood.
What transfusion "is" as a legal entity is still a bit confusing. I don't think it's incorporated or trademarked to my knowledge.
As long as it claims copyrights within some internal documentation I'm sure it has legal standing of some sort.



Oh, and zZaRDoZz, I have been wondering what your avatar is supposed to be. All I know is that it looks like a stone gorilla Karl Marx look-alike (you got to admit, the likeness is striking)
The avatar is a photoshopped reproduction (creator unknown) of one of the masks worn by the exterminators in the John Boorman movie Zardoz.
At least I think it is a reproduction of the mask and not the stone head as the giant monolith depicted in that movie did not taper at the top as the pic used for the icon does. I'm not entirely sure though. Just click the youtube link in my sig to see a satirical peice on Zardoz.
User avatar
DustyStyx
2D Artist
Posts: 2038
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 02:12 am
Location: Salt Lake
Contact:

Post by DustyStyx »

As for the legality of Transfusion, I think we are on the up and up, more so than many other fan-made productions in general. We have supporting documentation and emails from both Atari and Monolith.

The EIDOS comment, to my knowledge, remains a possibility in theory. The legal standing of EIDOS as a prior-publisher is unclear to me. They may well have sold all rights to GT, or they may still have some, I do not know if that particular avenue has been addressed.
User avatar
Dimebog
The Enlightened Florist
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 02:22 pm
Location: Among The Living
Contact:

Post by Dimebog »

Tchernobog wrote:Yes, it is quite nice to see how everyone is calmly discussing this given how heated it got over at Posty.
Indeed. I only wonder how calm would you remain if he called you an extreme fanboy living in a cave. It's alright to insult every member of Postmortem, we got used to that kind of thing, right?

Go on please.
User avatar
zZaRDoZz
Acolyte
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 03:13 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by zZaRDoZz »

@Dimebog I don't think anyone can deny the use of insults became the norm rather than the exception in the Hypertension thread over at postmortem. It wasn't one of my proudest moments I must admit. Fortunately everyone here agrees the use of put downs and personal attacks really don't have any place in this thread.
User avatar
Dimebog
The Enlightened Florist
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 02:22 pm
Location: Among The Living
Contact:

Post by Dimebog »

The thread has been on Posty for months, and my first post there is to express my full support. Then I remained completely silent until the ridiculous things started happening and all the false advertisement. Still, I don't remember warranting any insults. I tried to be civil and focus on BLOOD. Back in the day, the first thing I'd have done is make a remark about Clari being a transvestite, since I knew that all along from the moment s*** hit the fan. I would have found that entertaining a few years ago. Instead, I focused on BLOOD solely. Everything else doesn't concern me. And I received 100% unwarranted insults. Then Joe started insulting the whole of Posty on that blog site. None of us even posted there until that point as far as I know! And still, I ignored all his insults and flames and kept it civil, straight to the point.

I don't know what else I can do. I can't provide criticism, and I can't remain silent either. There are still several people on Posty that have remained silent or perhaps even support the project right now. What did they do to deserve those insults?

If you have a problem with someone, deal with it. Don't go around spreading lies and insults about the entire community most of which you don't even know.
User avatar
zZaRDoZz
Acolyte
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 03:13 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by zZaRDoZz »

@Dimebog

This thread was starting to wander Dime. Thanks for getting it back on track.
I don't know what else I can do. I can't provide criticism, and I can't remain silent either. There are still several people on Posty that have remained silent or perhaps even support the project right now. What did they do to deserve those insults?
No one deserves insults Dimebog. Insults and an overly sensitive reaction to insults are what made people react to Corbin the way they did. In some ways your cool analysis made me see insults pointed at the community where I hadn't before. You have accomplished more than you realize.

Insults are why Corbin might very well intentionally mock Blood. Where before he was only trying to praise the game in a highly misinformed way. Developing a space if you will where no insults are allowed (at least not personal ones) is critical to insuring as many people in the Blood community speak there minds as possible.
If you have a problem with someone, deal with it. Don't go around spreading lies and insults about the entire community most of which you don't even know.
Always sage advice Dime. If only we could all live in a world were such sentiments were agreed upon.

You've done everything you can do. Hypertension was being politely ignored until I chimed in with "it's the end of Blood!" post in Kurt's Resurrection thread. I then foolishly added "Your work is valued but Bloodites will never gather around the doom engine."

So if you must have a scape goat for the whole affair I volunteer. I've ruined my friendship with Kurt and everything I do to fix it makes it worse. Perhaps time can heal wounds.

There is only one way to tell.
User avatar
Tchernobog
Tchernobog's Love Child
Posts: 1321
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 07:30 am
Location: Rural Alberta, Canada
Contact:

Post by Tchernobog »

Okay people, calm down. For some reason this issue is really stirring up more trouble than it is worth. I think the main problem here is every one is taking things to personally. And it is because of this that these conversations often lead into realms of insults and vulgarity.

To the people criticizing HYPERTENSION:
I would like to quote another Bloodite for a moment:
Another Bloodite wrote:I understand that a person can adore Blood and treat it like a Godly game, but I still don't think it is alright to just destroy or try to discredit other games that were made as a tribute to the real game... These are fan made tributes, no one is trying to be on top or dethrone Blood. Nor are they trying to draw attention away from it... One shouldn't waste their time trying to keep Blood as a sacred game, because it already is. There is no need..
In short, Blood was a great game. And I hardly think someone making there own modification or game based on it can change how the game feels to play. It will not change Caleb's maniac laugh as you blast though Cultists while playing Cradle to Grave. It will not change how you feel about the original game. So there is no reason to take it personally. It cant change how much you love, or how much anybody else loves, Blood. So dont take it personally. The worst that could possible come out of this is a game which you dislike, and all that means is you don't have to play it. Just because someone has a different vision than you does not change how you think of Blood yourself.
User avatar
zZaRDoZz
Acolyte
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 03:13 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by zZaRDoZz »

I think we've achieved chil mode.
User avatar
I Live...AGAIN
Cabal member
Posts: 796
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 05:33 am
Location: Detroit
Contact:

Post by I Live...AGAIN »

Another Bloodite wrote:I understand that a person can adore Blood and treat it like a Godly game, but I still don't think it is alright to just destroy or try to discredit other games that were made as a tribute to the real game... These are fan made tributes, no one is trying to be on top or dethrone Blood. Nor are they trying to draw attention away from it... One shouldn't waste their time trying to keep Blood as a sacred game, because it already is. There is no need..

Whatever Bloodite said the above, I would like to thank because it couldn't have been said better....
User avatar
zZaRDoZz
Acolyte
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 03:13 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by zZaRDoZz »

Well, I guess no one seems interested in what amazing bloodite is quoted
in the post by Tchernobog.
User avatar
Tchernobog
Tchernobog's Love Child
Posts: 1321
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 07:30 am
Location: Rural Alberta, Canada
Contact:

Post by Tchernobog »

zZaRDoZz wrote:Well, I guess no one seems interested in what amazing bloodite is quoted in the post by Tchernobog.
http://blood.wiki-site.com/index.php/User:Drudge_Master
User avatar
zZaRDoZz
Acolyte
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 03:13 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by zZaRDoZz »

2 points occurred to me while struggling against sleep on the ride home.


Point 1. Why, do some Blood fans resent other Blood fans for wanting to protect Blood artwork and such? The closest thing I came up with that sounds reasonable is: Your a gamer who comes from a community were such behavior is common or
You were a major Blood2 player who, like many b2 players from 10 years ago, greatly resented GT/monolith's failure to support Blood 2 after release. In some cases this anger was so intense, certain fan's would actually rejoice at anything bad happening to the respective companies.


Point 2. The current equation for how Hypertensions might look something like this.
Postmortem using all influence to stop blood mods that steal or abuse franchise material/ideas.
Now if we change one of the variables to Transfusion, what happens to those negative attitudes concerning posty?
Transfusion using all influence to stop blood mods that steal or abuse franchise material/ideas.
They vanish. In fact someone could easily come in here a validly argue that Postmortem is doing the job Transfusion was empowered to do.

This is me thinking out loud btw. Someone please show me that this is not a valid way of constructing the situation.
User avatar
I Live...AGAIN
Cabal member
Posts: 796
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 05:33 am
Location: Detroit
Contact:

Post by I Live...AGAIN »

I'll answer that.

It wouldn't make any difference whatsoever to me. If Transfusion did the same things as Postmortem I would be up their asses about it just as much.

People love the game and try to make tribute to it, then treated like criminals by some fanatic self-righteous troll squad. It's not the first time it's happened.

All anyone is trying to do is pay tribute to a game they love.
All people are doing is taking time out of their own lives to either entertain you or themselves with a game they love. It's not like any of these parity games or mods is running around trying to make money.

zZaRDoZz, your assumptions are way off base.

Transfusion wasn't "empowered" to do anything but use resources of the original games with certain restrictions. I repeat, they were not hired as the Blood Police.

If you think you have proof of someone stealing resources, go tell the developers and stop whining about it.
Example: If you saw someone stealing someone's purse, would you go tell the police yourself or would you run around the street yelling at everyone else to call the police because you think it's their job?

I have my own opinions (and so do others) about how certain people at the postmortem conduct themselves. I am the type of person who forms his own opinion, I don't listen to what other people say. I open my eyes and look for myself and make my own decisions about how I feel about things.
When I said earlier that I haven't posted alot lately but that I am around reading all the forums I meant exactly that, I read ALL the forums.
I see what goes on at postmortem and read what they talk about. I see all the "tee-hee" threads about "Hypertension has a thread here and I went and flamed it" or "people are praising this mod here so everyone go there and strike it down".
I find it amusing that because some people dont post over there that they feel like what they do is a secret. I can read.

I have never asked anyone to feel the way I do about it. Everything is there to read and make your own decision. If you dont agree with mine fine, we agree to disagree.

Let me state one last time, I am not against the postmortem, I am against people acting like ass-holes and in my opinion, there is a small pack of people there who do.
Dimebog came here and spewed about how fair he was about a mod, that he new certain things but he was such a fair guy about not mentioning it.
It came out like this: I hate this mod but I am a grownup so I am not going to mention someone is a transvestite, but guess what? SOMEONE IS A TRANSVESTITE!!!!! Then they run back to their forum and post "he-he" threads.

That type behavior is that of an ass-hole in my opinion. You can form your own.

Also, since you seem so bent on not letting this die, why don't you explain exactly what it is that Hypertension is doing illegally? They are using their own textures, the are using some people's models but they have permission to do so. They are also creating their own models. They are writing their own story, using their own voice actors. From what I have seen and read, they have used some Blood resources as placeholders and such, but have never officially released anything with any copyrighted resources, nor do they ever plan on doing so.
User avatar
Ella
Axe Zombie
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:19 am
Location: Loathers Mill

Post by Ella »

I'm going to interject here I Live...AGAIN, but only on matters that of the Postmortem, for as i'm retiring from further arguments against Hypertension. Apologise if this conversation strolls too far from its base.

Before i write further, i would like to make note that i don't intend to raise any hateful attitude towards anyone here, nor do i have any personal issues against anyone either, so i hope we can all be civilized here and act as the adults we're meant to portray ourselves as.

Your general view on the Postmortem I Live...AGAIN, is quite dignified by your personal beliefs, be that of summarizing the community as some form of disgrace as a whole, but realise that not every member from the Postmotem has participated within the arguments against Hypertension, so it's generally unfair to deem all of them a negative influence. Your statements on the activity/comments created at the Postmortem also, are misguided, only few have raised 'immature' behaviour that regarding Clari's/Corbins personal life, that of which have been ignored as you can witness. The actions regarding our members there are strictly on their own, we are not there to deliberately flame, or pass on from source to source regarding something certain individuals have a dislike towards, the consequences of their actions is their responsibility, so i hope you can appreciate my asking if you can please not make false accusations against our conversations, it is only brought on by one individual, not an on-going joke.

We never raise new threads that of relation to either Clari/Corbin or Hypertension for any amusement value, we have our morels and don't wish to bring the community to such a undignified level.

I would like to also note that i won't further associate myself to Hypetensions development, because there has already been no drastic change via arguments risen, so if you have problems with the ones who try to still raise points against this project, then so be it, for we're free to express our selves, and opinions, but be aware you're within a contradictive state of how members of the Postmortem share their opinions to one another, so it's better to let such behaviour to run its course rather than trying to convince otherwise, if you agree.

I'll make notice again that not everyone from the Postmortem classes as your descriptive point of view, and although this may be difficult by how we communicate with you personally, and i'll admit i've made comments that raise some discouraging names towards you, but they aren't without my short immature lapses, of which we're all guilty of from time to time. I hope that this whole situation/grudge will eventually blow over, as it's not what a community that should strictly be a 'whole' should behave, be that in defence, or offense. Blood is a game i now thoroughly understand which can be praised in manors held to the individual, but a forum doesn't hold any responsibility for the actions of people against situations like these, nor is it encouraged.
Locked