This I Ask You, Fellow Bloodites

[Gila]

lemme say this.

PAINKILLER.

block out the dumb story and CGI videos (which are OK though but stupid) and there you go... nice sort of BLOOD clone.

PK is the game that holds true legacy of DOOM/BLOOD/Q1.

and the stakegun is fun.

the addon for it (Battle Out Of Hell) was a mixed bag and some things in the game can drive anyone crackers (like getting all the secrets in The Docks level) but the game is great. lots of blood. lots of corpses. tons of enemies.

in the oct 07 theres gonna be another expansion for it. can't wait for that.

[RedFanatic]

I agree Painkiller is a perfect (almost) Blood 3,
But it dosen't mean there can't be another Fan made sequel perhaps a bit more
traditional in FPS style not so Serious Sam like as PK is.

Also by Cartooney i only mean as much as Painkiller is Cartooney,
Painkiller is like a violent game, where as things like ManHunter are a bit too excessive.

[Shagg E]

Manhunt was great, whatchoo talkin' bout, Willis?

(Especially the PC version... Jason Voorhees mod FTW)

[Kazashi]

A few quick comments, since my browser crashed while writing up a larger post. It's also made me crankier than usual.

Transfusion is staying open source. I don't have Windows or HL2, not everybody does. We're not being bound by it.

We're not making D3/HL2 quality assets because we're recreating Blood, not enhancing it. The engine isn't the problem - it can handle highly detailed assets, we simply choose not to. Competition won't make us work harder, we have real lives and real jobs to pay for our real computers and real bills.

No qualms with people trying for Blood 3, but experience shows that enthusiasm will die down after a while. I personally don't support using Source if you want the community to embrace it, but whatever floats your boat.

[DustyStyx]

You could always try and go the FEAR/Condemned Lithtech engine route. Nothin' says lovin' like financially supporting and endorsing Monolith's current investments. Of course, that is if you want to go the proprietary route. In all likelihood that would probably be the best way to promote an official Blood 3 (even with licensing issues). At least they've swung back to the darker genres.

That's cool you got a hold of Mr. Weyte, Shagg E. Though kinda sucks that he is barred from contributing voice talent, such is life I guess.

[Shagg E]

I'd LOVE to use the FEAR engine for B3, but we chose Source due to it's accessibility for folks without much experience, like our team. (not saying we don't know what we're doing, but we've never put our respective talents towards a full game before)

I know we're limiting prospective players by going Source, but it's the only user-friendly engine I know of that can pull off what we have planned. Besides, people actually playing it is just a bonus, I'd still think it a success if it never left our hard drives. Just as long as I can look back at it and say "Holy s***, we actually MADE that."

Competition won't make us work harder, we have real lives and real jobs to pay for our real computers and real bills.

I completely understand that, I'm not trying to provide competition by any means. I love the idea of the Transfusion project, I just didn't know where it stood at this point.

experience shows that enthusiasm will die down after a while.

No arguements there. But it's as I told our artist, Felipe: "Once we put money towards this, there's no way we can abandon it. None of us are well-off enough to throw money away on a whim." And at this point, we've put about $110 towards it (not much to most, but when you are being paid in disability checks, that's a king's ransom) , so come hell or high water, I refuse to give in to boredom or frustration until it's 100% done. Even if it's released alongside Duke Nukem Forever.

[DustyStyx]

Wow, do I hear an echo in here? Your arguments for using Source are pretty much the same arguments we had when we decided to use Quake. I'm referring, of course, to the statement "it's the only user-friendly engine I know of that can pull off what we have planned."

That aside, if you are determined to go the proprietary rout, to save on workload, really consider the textures and models already in place for the engine you plan on using. Using HL2 would make more sense if you were planning to redo Blood 2. Where as something like the already mentioned, Painkiller, Dead Man's Hand, or Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth might be a better choice for doing a Blood remake. Granted those games have already had their day and may not even be modable the way you'd like.

I don't mean to disregard your artist's talents, but Felipe should really assess the workload involved in doing a Blood remake. And what he feels he's capable of. There are over 100 unique objects that don't repeat anywhere within the first few levels of Blood. ie, e1m1 will have something like 200 objects that show up for the first time in e1m1, e1m2 has something like 150, and E1M3 has that many again. After that the objects get reused through Blood, with a few new ones here and there, but still that's a $#!+ tonne, load of work.

Call of Juarez might work as might The Witcher, throwing tech elements into that could really pull off the timeless look Blood has. Of course, again there is the modable issue.

[kurt]

I think Shagg E is probably only interested in working with Half Life 2, however in my efforts to create a more proper Blood sequel, I did look into many different engine possibilities.

But the game engine isn't even one of the most important things to consider on this subject. I enjoy pretty eye candy as much as the next person, but its the gameplay that's the most important aspect of creating a truly enjoyable game. It's the reason why an old highly pixellated game like Blood continues to be popular.

Blood 2 is a perfect example of a game done wrong. Created by skilled professionals on a highly advanced engine for its time, it lacks everything that made Blood such a classic.

People can talk about creating Blood games for Painkiller, Fear, Half Life 2, or the next big thing. But a nice shiny engine doesn't equal an enjoyable or successful game. It's an unbelievable amount of work creating textures, models, levels, etc, and then coding it all into something enjoyable.

I do wish anyone all the best though, in any attempts to create an enjoyable game, because I know first hand the difficulties and challenges that await you. Meanwhile I'll continue to do my best to repair and improve upon the game that no one really likes, but is still the only official sequel to Blood that was created by Monolith.

[wangho]

couldnt imagine the workload.. It's a lot of work just making an addon for original Blood 1

[Shagg E]

We're definitely going for a "gameplay first" philosophy. When I say "Source is the only engine that can pull off our plans easily", I don't mean graphically, I mean it more in the way of architecture and scripted sequences.

And I think most of us *do* like Blood 2, it wasn't a bad game at all, it just wasn't a good one either .

I don't mean to disregard your artist's talents, but Felipe should really assess the workload involved in doing a Blood remake

B3 isn't a remake. It's an entirely new installment. The only thing we're trying to remake is the spirit of the first one, the perfect toss-up of humor and horror. But you're right, we should re-use some HL2 resources (Ravenholm's, to be specific) to lighten the workload. It lessens the effect of it being more than a big mod, but it'll shave quite a bit off of our schedule.


EDIT: Unfinished concept model for the Hell Hand, just to show a bit of what Felipe can do.

[oBe]

That is one fine looking hand.

And I applaud to all efforts for the cause that is Blood.

But, one hand is still a long way to go.

I'm wondering how big a team you got. Because unless you got a team of 100 loyal cultists working in your basement, I'm having severe reservations. Nowaday games take a while to develop and there's probably alot more people working on it.

A Halflife mod has been attempted in the past, a Dukemod has been attempted, a Doommod has been attempted, a conversion for the Torque engine has been attempted, a reverse engineered engine has been attempted, one dude tried to write his own engine, even teeny bits have been converted to D3, but none were finished. You're not even the first one to bring up the idea of a fanmade B3. I think the Doommod looked finished the most, but it was basically some artreplacements and a few levels. Some of them were trying to be exact replica's, others were free interpretations, but they all died between pre-production and stable beta.

Transfusion has been around the longest, and had the most teammembers (past and present) over it's course, and it's still not finished. But at least it has a solid base. Transfusion has also acquired the legal rights to distribute it and above all it's free.

I get you might be more comfortable with HL2 for some reason and don't fancy joining TF because maybe we're all unpleasant assholes. I do hope you'd reconsider though. HL2 is kinda Quakebased so I reckon it'd be at least similar in modding.

The recreation/enhancement deal might be an issue too probably. But you're always free to model, skin and code enemies with higher polycounts and better AI. Me, I'd settle for less if I knew I would actually receive a decent product in return. Upscaling could always come afterwards if that would be desirable.

I still dream of all 6 classic episodes, the Blood 2 episodes (preferably polished and tweaked) and new fresh content, ALL UNDER THE SAME MENU. And with TF, you could do that freely and legally.

Also, if you go for source, which you probably will, bear in mind not every Blood fan will get to play it, because not everyone owns HL2. I, for one, do not. Sure HL2 might have (had) a big community, but I don't really see anyone passing up a free download either.

Ah well, I've said this before. Either way, best of luck.

[Shagg E]

I'd be more than happy to join the TF project, except for one niggling issue: DarkPlaces has some major problems on my machine for some reason. I mean, it works when I play the betas that have been released, but when it comes to modding it, no dice. It's a shame, since I myself am an unpleasant asshole when it comes to getting things done, so I'd fit right in

As for our team size, we have 3 active, and are scouting for more. (Felipe has found quite a few rather talented people willing to put up with my methods, so expect that number to at least quadruple by the time we actually begin the "heavy lifting".)

I know every last person reading this thread is skeptical about this happening, and I have no way to prove how dedicated we actually are, but all I can say is: We truly have no lives. Picture the most socially-inhibited, computer-obsessed man your mind can concieve of, then picture him giving up LONG before I do, and you have an idea.

And as I've said before, yes, going Source is a problem when it comes to how many people actually have it, but it's either Source or FPS Creator, and I'd rather have a 48-hour Big Rigs gaming marathon than use FPS Creator. (besides, I already bought HL2 specifically for this project)

But anyhoo, Best of luck with TF as well, your project inspired B3, and hopefully it'll inspire more fans to create new content, be it a new map for B1 or a complete overhaul. The only fan base that needs new content more than this one is The Neverhood fanbase, haha. (and they're getting a bleedin' movie, where's OUR movie??)