*New Blood-1 addon* - *OUT NOW*

Discuss and hash out the Blood universe here.

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kurt
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Post by kurt » Tue Dec 11, 2007 01:20 am

This is all looking rather impressive and well done. Your decision in taking the time to fine tune all the details will no doubt make this a very enjoyable and entertaining experience.

I'll be looking forward to its eventual release. :D
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wangho
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Post by wangho » Tue Dec 11, 2007 02:57 am

well, I thought things were pretty good awhile ago months back, but I keep tinkering and polishing , but that is exactly what a map needs to make it good and make it balanced and not derivative of the other maps. RATM was made in the same fashion and if you look at it as a whole, you'll see that each map was quite different, aside from the first map and last map of course.

We've spent alot of time on the maps of course, and considering that, I feel it'd be a waste not to craft each map to it's fullest potential. Everything seems to be alot more aligned with Cryptic Passage than the original Blood episodes. Not so arcade-like, but more adventurous like CP. I guess it all comes down to the individual author to inject their own flair into a map. It won't be Blood, CP, Bloodlines, RATM, Carnage, or anything else but BPF.
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wangho
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Post by wangho » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:51 pm

I'm not gonna do anything 'just good enough.' Look where it got George Lucas with his fans. I tend to revisit maps that are a nice place to visit.

Aha!

But George Lucas has fans to begin with. You have yet to prove yourself.


I think some of you liked Nuthouse, even though that map can't compare with my newer stuff

I don't know man, it could be. All I know is that bloodites are not too generous when reviewing or giving opinions, or well, saying anything at all, to acknowledge that they tried it or something.

*checks pulse*

So. New stuff is better than nuthouse.map? Hows mastering Mapedit techniques going btw? Have you learned how to stack floors? Can we expect to see any of that complex structure like in retail levels, or you're still going for the straight-forward flat linear style and simple geometry?
thispost is originally from the Postmortem, but I have a tough time logging there, so I'm bringing it here...

Mapedit techniques are pretty much mastered, but to answer, I have BEEN making stacked sector areas in my maps, but I was unfamiliar with placing one whole section directly on top of another section so that they occupy the same 3d area. But you dont have to stack sectors to make impressive geometry. I think I did a pretty good job with the theatre area in Nuthouse and wasn't exactly standard user made newbie stuff. Just check some screenshots in earlier posts. Check out that staired porch with the fishing pole in the Swampgas screenshot. That little bastard alone took some time to make. Not only are the maps very pretty and colorful, they have great gameplay, varied enemy placement, you should never be able to guess where one of my enemies will be, a wide and full soundfield, some of the scariest and creepiest moments in any Blood map, a real sense of a journey and authentic feeling locales, a great sense of humor, and lots of fun easter eggs. Each map is very different from the preceding map as well. All in all, I dont think BPF is gonna be lacking in ANY areas and it should kick you all square in the nuts and have you asking for seconds.
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Dimebog
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Post by Dimebog » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:04 pm

wangho wrote:I have BEEN making stacked sector areas in my maps, but I was unfamiliar with placing one whole section directly on top of another section so that they occupy the same 3d area.
Uh, yeah, that's what makes Build games somewhat more advanced than DOOM, because they can do that. Putting "one whole section directly on top of another so that they occupy the same 3D area" IS sector stacking. The trick you are referring to is just an illusion (with mirror textures), not the real thing. I must say I will be really disappointed if this add-on doesn't show any real 3D architecture and stacked floors (like stairs that actually lead to a higher floor not just to another flat area). All Blood levels relied on that (well most decent user add-ons I've tried at least)...
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wangho
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Post by wangho » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:19 pm

Dimebog wrote:
wangho wrote:I have BEEN making stacked sector areas in my maps, but I was unfamiliar with placing one whole section directly on top of another section so that they occupy the same 3d area.
Uh, yeah, that's what makes Build games somewhat more advanced than DOOM, because they can do that. Putting "one whole section directly on top of another so that they occupy the same 3D area" IS sector stacking. The trick you are referring to is just an illusion (with mirror textures), not the real thing. I must say I will be really disappointed if this add-on doesn't show any real 3D architecture and stacked floors (like stairs that actually lead to a higher floor not just to another flat area). All Blood levels relied on that (well most decent user add-ons I've tried at least)...


well, it's not in every goshdarn map, just like it wasn't in every original Blood map, or even most original Blood maps, but it's there when it's needed in at least 4 of my maps and RedF has some cool stacked stuff in a good many of his maps too. You'll definitely get your 'sector stacked' jollies in
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Dimebog
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Post by Dimebog » Thu Jan 31, 2008 02:48 pm

Yeah, all gosh-darn BLOOD maps had real 3D floors. Especially in the first episode where all structure relied on overlaid sectors - and most often combined in one way or another with the mirror stacking trick that you use, to achieve a fully three-dimensional feel of levels. But I don't want to argue about it - as Kurt has said, you should finish this add-on to the best of your abillities, and everything you come up with, will be more than welcome. Back in a day, add-ons were at least being made once in a while. Now there's just a handful of mappers, and most of them are either too lazy to do anything, or can't coordinate their efforts into something decent. So even if your levels don't have real floors and buildings, I'm sure you have some other trick up your sleeve to compensate for it and add another dimension of the fun factor. Might prove for an interesting new concept.

Different people value different things about map design. Some are just looking for quick fun, some like the mood (less enemies more puzzles), some accept the Cryptic Passage style of running to get a key and then running back, while shooting cultists on the way, and occasional spawning of enemy groups to extend the map play-time and somewhat impose an illusion that youre not quite done in an area the next time you visit it. I personally dispise that mindless action, linear style of a level. It's like a Disneyland ride - you just run on a specific route and kill enemies. User levels that adopt that style have NO replay value what-so-ever. I'm fond of complex level structure, and realistic level design - make it look like an authentic location that becomes your playground, and make sure that levels have alternative routes that will be fun to discover each time you replay the campaign. You can make a generally small area that can have so much stuff in it to provide enough fun, and more playtime than a physically huge level through which you just run by a pre-defined route. Think of "Wrong Side of the Tracks". The train station building takes up a small physical area, but the floors are stacked so cleverly, that it provides so much play-time, and it doesn't get boring. And you never have to run back - new routes constantly reveal themselves on their own. That's all I look for in a BLOOD level.
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wangho
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Post by wangho » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:53 pm

Dimebog wrote:Yeah, all gosh-darn BLOOD maps had real 3D floors. Especially in the first episode where all structure relied on overlaid sectors - and most often combined in one way or another with the mirror stacking trick that you use, to achieve a fully three-dimensional feel of levels. But I don't want to argue about it - as Kurt has said, you should finish this add-on to the best of your abillities, and everything you come up with, will be more than welcome. Back in a day, add-ons were at least being made once in a while. Now there's just a handful of mappers, and most of them are either too lazy to do anything, or can't coordinate their efforts into something decent. So even if your levels don't have real floors and buildings, I'm sure you have some other trick up your sleeve to compensate for it and add another dimension of the fun factor. Might prove for an interesting new concept.

Different people value different things about map design. Some are just looking for quick fun, some like the mood (less enemies more puzzles), some accept the Cryptic Passage style of running to get a key and then running back, while shooting cultists on the way, and occasional spawning of enemy groups to extend the map play-time and somewhat impose an illusion that youre not quite done in an area the next time you visit it. I personally dispise that mindless action, linear style of a level. It's like a Disneyland ride - you just run on a specific route and kill enemies. User levels that adopt that style have NO replay value what-so-ever. I'm fond of complex level structure, and realistic level design - make it look like an authentic location that becomes your playground, and make sure that levels have alternative routes that will be fun to discover each time you replay the campaign. You can make a generally small area that can have so much stuff in it to provide enough fun, and more playtime than a physically huge level through which you just run by a pre-defined route. Think of "Wrong Side of the Tracks". The train station building takes up a small physical area, but the floors are stacked so cleverly, that it provides so much play-time, and it doesn't get boring. And you never have to run back - new routes constantly reveal themselves on their own. That's all I look for in a BLOOD level.
Im really confident in these maps for BPF. Some areas are just gonna be 'pre-determined' and 'linear' and that's for every Blood map ever made. Then you have the 'off the beaten path' areas and there's plenty of that stuff. I made a real effort to make each sector in a map unique, yet a part of the whole. I'm 100% confident it'll be right at or exceed the top of the heap of Blood projects. If you're proud and happy with RATM, then BPF will make you happy. They are getting the same polish that you'd find in original Blood maps. Just have some faith in me and Red and the project.
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RedFanatic
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Post by RedFanatic » Sat Feb 02, 2008 03:13 am

Yeah interesting to hear other peoples views on a 'Fun' Blood map, usually i like to replay levels again and again and again...and again
even if they are linear as i find the Blood weapons so satisfiying they constantly reward.

But i do get your point Dimebog and for my part i think you'll be happy,
Mostly i'm still exploring Mapedit and while i do think i'm pretty good there
are certain area's i might not be able to match original quality maps but...

The good thing with exploring is i'm always trying new stuff out which leads to a varied experiance within the maps also,
I just can't create a bulding or room without feeling as if i've covered why it's there,
so to the best of my ability and in keeping with my own exacting standards i've made my maps as 'Real' place feeling as i can with No loose ends.

And finally since one episode is all Wangho's and the other's mostly mine even if you don't like one of our styles your not going to be stuck with it.
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wangho
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Post by wangho » Wed Feb 27, 2008 06:37 am

It's been awhile since we've updated this thread, so I thought I'd put up 2 new images. I havent had as much time to work on the maps lately, but the good news is that the big majority of the addon is complete, just need to add the finishing touches on a bunch of the maps and make about 2 or 3 more maps

Image

Image
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Slink

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Post by Slink » Wed Feb 27, 2008 07:50 am

Looks tasty.
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DustyStyx
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Post by DustyStyx » Wed Feb 27, 2008 03:36 pm

DustyStyx starts chanting: "We want JoJo!"
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RedFanatic
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Post by RedFanatic » Fri Feb 29, 2008 04:39 am

Here's a little more of what i've been up to.......

Image
Image

Just a few more and then a bit of tweaking and Bam!
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Zardoz
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Post by Zardoz » Fri Feb 29, 2008 07:32 am

Looks like a Monche or Goya painting.


Just like Blood should look. :twisted:
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wangho
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Post by wangho » Fri Apr 18, 2008 03:10 am

stay tuned peeps, im uploading a 2 minute + gameplay clip from Bloody Pulp Fiction (for the 1st episode) on Youtube.
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wangho
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Post by wangho » Fri Apr 18, 2008 05:33 am

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