Blood conversion for Doom2
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Guest
Any progress?Krypto wrote:Progress is a tad slow at the moment because Doorhenge just finished 3 levels from CP (Boggy Creek, Mountain Pass, one other) when his harddrive crashedbut he's just a bit disheartened at this. You rly must play the game with the Bludhirez.wad it's much better than the ZDaemon coop which cannot run this wad. But he doesn't want to drop support for ZDaemon so the hirez wad is the SP part which helps to make it feel more like Blood.
Also, the reason why he can't recreate the original levels in order because he can't replicate the levels exactly cause of the engine, thats why the layout has changed in the levels.
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Dismantled
BumpAnonymous wrote:Any progress?Krypto wrote:Progress is a tad slow at the moment because Doorhenge just finished 3 levels from CP (Boggy Creek, Mountain Pass, one other) when his harddrive crashed
Also, the reason why he can't recreate the original levels in order because he can't replicate the levels exactly cause of the engine, thats why the layout has changed in the levels.
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Guest
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Dimebog
- The Enlightened Florist
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Well it's true that this port sucks balls. They put so much effort in it, at least they could have checked out how the level endings looked like, and refrain from including s*** DOOM sprites, stills, and ornaments everywhere.Anonymous wrote:STFU.Krypto wrote:Last time i heard, no one cares. The original Blood is oh so better why bother with this replication
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Guest
Yeah, it's somehow nothing compared, since they aren't updating it as they should, but that isn't any excuse to come saying hey, who cares about a Blood port? cuz' even when it can get better, with multiplayer lovage, no one's willing to like it!.
The latest version was a real surprise, since you can quite destroy everything playing with ZDoom(if you play it on another source-port, it gets even suckier, specially refering to the latest thing I wrote).
The latest version was a real surprise, since you can quite destroy everything playing with ZDoom(if you play it on another source-port, it gets even suckier, specially refering to the latest thing I wrote).
And it's for Doom 2.
And the maps don't flow properly.
And there's no Tesla Cannon.
And blowing up zombies is boring.
And Coop isn't fun.
And the Hi-res wad doesn't even function right.
And it makes the cultists and zombies small.
And the music is in the wrong sequence.
And it's obvious I don't like this Mod anymore.
and...
and...
and...
and...
and...
Oh look. Dosbox!
And the maps don't flow properly.
And there's no Tesla Cannon.
And blowing up zombies is boring.
And Coop isn't fun.
And the Hi-res wad doesn't even function right.
And it makes the cultists and zombies small.
And the music is in the wrong sequence.
And it's obvious I don't like this Mod anymore.
and...
and...
and...
and...
and...
Oh look. Dosbox!
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psyren (guest)
Wow, I didn't think anyone was talking about this much anymore. Good or bad, it's nice to read all comments about something you've worked hard on.
For those who were offended by that "guest" poster criticising/defending whatever point it was he was trying to make, (I don't understand the outburst myself) DoomwadStation was said to have changed ownership, though it seems to have vanished altogether.
For those who enjoy ZBlood, I can say with some knowledge that it is still being worked on. Doorhenge is doing it himself since he is treading new territory, pushing the limits of ZDoom, and can't find anyone to help out other than cheering him on.
For those who don't like it, that's fine also. If more people had liked Blood a decade ago, it probably wouldn't have become the obscure game, hard to get running right on a modern machine, that it is today. It only stands to reason that devoted fans and players of Monolith's greatest gem would consider any conversion to Doom as sacrilege, degradation, and vandalism. I agree, for the most part.
Just to set a few things straight:
1) The TC was never meant to replace Blood, it was meant to make Doom look better. (You can make a Volkswagen look like a Ferrari, but it's still a Volkswagen.) ZDoom is far advanced from the old Doom engine and can do things I never imagined, but it will never duplicate all the features of Build.
2) I am not smart enough to understand Build mapping, and Blood is even more advanced than Duke is. As a result, there is, maybe, 1 Blood usermap for every 100 custom maps for Duke. Compare this to the simplicity of Doom, for every Duke map there are probably 1000 Doom maps. (Any 6 year old can make a Doom map - and it shows.) So, if I want to make and play something myself that feels a little like Blood, a TC was the only way I could do it.
3) People asked, "Why don't you just help out with Transfusion instead of making your own inferior conversion?" Well, as I said, I lack the skills to work with Build. I cannot even map for ZDoom at the skill level required now. I sure as heck can't map for Darkplaces. Creating 3D models or skinning them is also far beyond me. I have lots more time than the people working on Transfusion do, but where can I put it to any use?
I also want to see more Transfusion, but I'll keep checking back and looking for progress quietly unless I have something constructive to offer. I know what it takes to put together a much smaller project, so no one will ever see me whining and complaining about apparent stagnation in a project as massive and laborious as Transfusion must be.
Making a conversion to Duke or Shadow Warrior is a great idea also. With the source code lost, that would be the closest we could ever come to an authentic looking replacement for the original Blood. I'll support any such effort if someone wants to get off their arse and do it. Since I can't do it myself though, I ain't gonna bitch that no one else is.
So, sorry for the long post. I don't feel the ZDoom BloodTC is in competition with Transfusion at all. There is no comparison between the two except love for the same awesome old game. Anything that gets more people intersted in Blood is a good thing. If they have the skills to fine tune a Ferrari, then that's fantastic. If not, then they are more than welcome to come and help us customise a Volkswagen.
(Wishing someone would put together a set of files and a .bat file or something to get the original running on this damned XP machine! - because he can't get it working following the simple instructions at Deathmask.net!)
http://numerometria.com/blood.htm
For those who were offended by that "guest" poster criticising/defending whatever point it was he was trying to make, (I don't understand the outburst myself) DoomwadStation was said to have changed ownership, though it seems to have vanished altogether.
For those who enjoy ZBlood, I can say with some knowledge that it is still being worked on. Doorhenge is doing it himself since he is treading new territory, pushing the limits of ZDoom, and can't find anyone to help out other than cheering him on.
For those who don't like it, that's fine also. If more people had liked Blood a decade ago, it probably wouldn't have become the obscure game, hard to get running right on a modern machine, that it is today. It only stands to reason that devoted fans and players of Monolith's greatest gem would consider any conversion to Doom as sacrilege, degradation, and vandalism. I agree, for the most part.
Just to set a few things straight:
1) The TC was never meant to replace Blood, it was meant to make Doom look better. (You can make a Volkswagen look like a Ferrari, but it's still a Volkswagen.) ZDoom is far advanced from the old Doom engine and can do things I never imagined, but it will never duplicate all the features of Build.
2) I am not smart enough to understand Build mapping, and Blood is even more advanced than Duke is. As a result, there is, maybe, 1 Blood usermap for every 100 custom maps for Duke. Compare this to the simplicity of Doom, for every Duke map there are probably 1000 Doom maps. (Any 6 year old can make a Doom map - and it shows.) So, if I want to make and play something myself that feels a little like Blood, a TC was the only way I could do it.
3) People asked, "Why don't you just help out with Transfusion instead of making your own inferior conversion?" Well, as I said, I lack the skills to work with Build. I cannot even map for ZDoom at the skill level required now. I sure as heck can't map for Darkplaces. Creating 3D models or skinning them is also far beyond me. I have lots more time than the people working on Transfusion do, but where can I put it to any use?
I also want to see more Transfusion, but I'll keep checking back and looking for progress quietly unless I have something constructive to offer. I know what it takes to put together a much smaller project, so no one will ever see me whining and complaining about apparent stagnation in a project as massive and laborious as Transfusion must be.
Making a conversion to Duke or Shadow Warrior is a great idea also. With the source code lost, that would be the closest we could ever come to an authentic looking replacement for the original Blood. I'll support any such effort if someone wants to get off their arse and do it. Since I can't do it myself though, I ain't gonna bitch that no one else is.
So, sorry for the long post. I don't feel the ZDoom BloodTC is in competition with Transfusion at all. There is no comparison between the two except love for the same awesome old game. Anything that gets more people intersted in Blood is a good thing. If they have the skills to fine tune a Ferrari, then that's fantastic. If not, then they are more than welcome to come and help us customise a Volkswagen.
(Wishing someone would put together a set of files and a .bat file or something to get the original running on this damned XP machine! - because he can't get it working following the simple instructions at Deathmask.net!)
http://numerometria.com/blood.htm
I would like to comment about your statement of putting Blood on ZDoom as being a degradation and sacrilege. I think you've missed the point. It's not that we dislike the Doom engine, hell at one time we were considering all open source engines to port Blood to including the various Doom variants. Monolith themselves had Doom II's deathmatch in mind when they were making Blood.
We chose not to go with Doom because it was lacking more basic game mechanics, then Quake was at the time. Most notably these were, lack of crouch, room over room and swimming effects, I can't remember if Doom had rotating sectors either. Also we want to update the enemies and objects in Blood to full 3D, again, at the time the Doom engines did not support 3D models. But I think you've said as much yourself.
Also, AFAIK a VW suped up to be like a Ferrari is called a Porsche, to let the metaphor continue...
We chose not to go with Doom because it was lacking more basic game mechanics, then Quake was at the time. Most notably these were, lack of crouch, room over room and swimming effects, I can't remember if Doom had rotating sectors either. Also we want to update the enemies and objects in Blood to full 3D, again, at the time the Doom engines did not support 3D models. But I think you've said as much yourself.
Also, AFAIK a VW suped up to be like a Ferrari is called a Porsche, to let the metaphor continue...
you have to be very, very, very smart to be able to build maps for Blood. In fact, you have to be damn near genius.
Heh, jes kidding. There are no shortcuts with building (good) maps for Blood, however. An eye for detail, reworking, and experimentation are the most important keys in my mind. If you don't keep those in mind, the map will be stale.
Heh, jes kidding. There are no shortcuts with building (good) maps for Blood, however. An eye for detail, reworking, and experimentation are the most important keys in my mind. If you don't keep those in mind, the map will be stale.
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Guest
http://bloodgame.ru/forum/topic.php?forum=2&topic=61psyren (guest) wrote:Making a conversion to Duke or Shadow Warrior is a great idea also. With the source code lost, that would be the closest we could ever come to an authentic looking replacement for the original Blood. I'll support any such effort if someone wants to get off their arse and do it. Since I can't do it myself though, I ain't gonna bitch that no one else is.
