SDK question : Blood.pal and problem with hlqbsp.exe

General discussion relating to the Transfusion project.

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predator
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Post by predator »

Anonymous wrote:Some sections are giving me gigantic headaches
Don't worry. It's normal. :wink:
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Slink

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Post by Slink »

If you find that floors/ceilings are missing, that is because of the fact that the map converter tries to convert an entire sector as one brush. If the sector's shape is concave, it will not be converted correctly, if at all, as concave brushes are NOT POSSIBLE in our engine.

I came up with the solution of PRE-CONVERSION WORK, as in opening the old map in mapedit, drawing new sector lines where necessary, joining where a "shadow line" divides a tabletop, etc. Effectively, you optimize the conversion from blood map to quake!


-Slink
sirlemonhead
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Post by sirlemonhead »

The problem is I can't really view Blood maps easily on my current pc, so fixing heavily borked areas is a pain, as I don't have a reference. Hopefully i'll get more done on the level this weekend. This week has been really busy/tiring.

And for some reason, I cant edit brush properties to make doors etc. I haven't really looked at the problem, but i'm sure it'll be an easy fix..
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Post by sirlemonhead »

Need help. What should I do about the long angled wall highlighted in the yellow cirle in the picture?

Image

Should I just straighten it out? I'm uncertain as to whether I should be altering the original level geometry, but I cant see what else I can do to stop it overlapping into the staircase of the toilet to the left of it.
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predator
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Post by predator »

How did it look in Blood? Why didn't those areas overlap there? Was it because one sector had its ceiling lower than the other sector's floor?
But in this case there would be no problems to recreate it in Quake.
I just don't remember this part of the map, and I don't remember mapedit too well now.

Anyway, you must be prepared that due to the differences in build and Quake engines sometimes you just HAVE TO CHANGE geometry in order to be able to recreate Blood levels in Quake.

In the case above you can, for example move this wall a bit to the right and make it a bit longer. The change should be rather small. But that's only if both rooms should be on the same height. Otherwise I don't see the problem.
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Post by sirlemonhead »

Well it's a staircase, so the top steps are on the same height as that line. Hopefully the bottom section and toilet underwater area will be low enough to fit...

I'll change the wall I guess. Cheers :)
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Slink

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Post by Slink »

sirlemonhead wrote:Need help. What should I do about the long angled wall highlighted in the yellow cirle in the picture?
(image was here)
Should I just straighten it out? I'm uncertain as to whether I should be altering the original level geometry, but I cant see what else I can do to stop it overlapping into the staircase of the toilet to the left of it.

MY ADVICE TO YOU: NO, do not straighten any walls. Walls are the only thing from the Blood maps, that convert almost perfectly. Leave the walls as they are. What you need to do is carve up the existing concave sectors into convex ones. Do you get that? Let me know and I will explain in more detail.

Also: If you don't feel like messing around with a sector in Mapedit, then don't! You can always create brushes by hand in (whatever map editor you use) and make them fit to the walls using vertex manipulation!

ALSO!: Remember how they made shadows in Blood? A shaded area of the same room was a totally different sector! You can eliminate these boundaries which devide rooms unnecessarily, thusly creating a simpler room, which will convert more cleanly.


-Slink

P.S. We can speak via PM or another service. Good luck, and let me know!
sirlemonhead
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Post by sirlemonhead »

Slink wrote:
sirlemonhead wrote:Need help. What should I do about the long angled wall highlighted in the yellow cirle in the picture?
(image was here)
Should I just straighten it out? I'm uncertain as to whether I should be altering the original level geometry, but I cant see what else I can do to stop it overlapping into the staircase of the toilet to the left of it.

MY ADVICE TO YOU: NO, do not straighten any walls. Walls are the only thing from the Blood maps, that convert almost perfectly. Leave the walls as they are. What you need to do is carve up the existing concave sectors into convex ones. Do you get that? Let me know and I will explain in more detail.

Also: If you don't feel like messing around with a sector in Mapedit, then don't! You can always create brushes by hand in (whatever map editor you use) and make them fit to the walls using vertex manipulation!

ALSO!: Remember how they made shadows in Blood? A shaded area of the same room was a totally different sector! You can eliminate these boundaries which devide rooms unnecessarily, thusly creating a simpler room, which will convert more cleanly.


-Slink

P.S. We can speak via PM or another service. Good luck, and let me know!
hehe yeah, I'm going to remember this when I do a second level. It was a pain having to fix floors and ceilings where the shaded sector had converted into a brush.

I know about concave brushes being a no no. And vertex manipulation is a life saver..My problem is with two seperate areas in the level that occupy the same physical space. One area will have to be reduced in size to accomodate the second area. In thise case, i'll need to reduce the
angle of the wall so as to fit in the staircase area that leads down to the sewage tank beneath the toilet.

Having someone to talk to on msn about mapping would be cool though, as a few questions do pop into my mind while working on the level.

bduncan22@hotmail.com is my msn address.

THanks :)
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DustyStyx
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Post by DustyStyx »

That's one of the reasons we need to get a seamless teleportation system worked out
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Slink

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Post by Slink »

Well, now that I think about it, the seamless "teleportation" (including visual) is not a bad idea... It would certainly solve those wacky sector conflict problems, and in a much better way than merely changing the level construction to be realistic 3D. HAH, who needs realism when we can have FAKISM? :lol:

If anyone doesn't know what we are talking about, imagine stacked rooms in Blood1. Remember the "rooms upon rooms?" Well, ... I am too tired to explain the rest. :p :-D


-Slink
sirlemonhead
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Post by sirlemonhead »

Hey Slink(or any other mappers), can I send you my .map file for you to take a look at? I'm getting a giant headache trying to fix this toilet underwater area, and would be grateful if you could offer some tips/help.
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Post by Bloodite »

Ill take a look at it if you want, Ive dealt with superimposed areas before.
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Post by Bloodite »

Slink wrote:Well, now that I think about it, the seamless "teleportation" (including visual) is not a bad idea... It would certainly solve those wacky sector conflict problems, and in a much better way than merely changing the level construction to be realistic 3D. HAH, who needs realism when we can have FAKISM? :lol:

If anyone doesn't know what we are talking about, imagine stacked rooms in Blood1. Remember the "rooms upon rooms?" Well, ... I am too tired to explain the rest. :p :-D


-Slink
In a number of cases Ive seen including e1m8 a seamless teleportation system is actually needed, a small amount of such superimposed areas existed in e3m1 as well, but it was small enough as to readily avoid using such a system, good thing too, it wouldnt have worked out too well in that particular situation :lol:
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Post by sirlemonhead »

Bloodite wrote:Ill take a look at it if you want, Ive dealt with superimposed areas before.
Has my e-mail got through to you?
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Post by Bloodite »

Yep, Ive been working on it.
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