Moderator: General Discussion Moderators
1] I wouldn't call DMC an "abomination", but I would agree it doesn't match the original.Anonymous wrote:Excuse me while I claw out my eyeballs after seeing that post.
HalfLife "Deathmatch Classic" is an abomination.
Source is closed source (meaning we can't improve the engine), and would be requiring every player of Transfusion to purchase HalfLife2 or another Source based game off of Steam (as there is no retail release of HalfLife2 anymore), this would defeat the whole point of using the Quake engine for Transfusion (that of it being a free standalone game using an easily modifiable engine, not a mod for a commercial game), and subject countless thousands to the horror that is Steam. Steam would be alright if it didn't waste cpu time, waste bandwidth, and waste everyones' time.
Additionally Source's lighting model is far less advanced than the Doom3-like lighting supported in DarkPlaces engine (which Transfusion is already using).
It would also be a waste of time to port from one engine to another, this involves rewriting all of the game code, and the project is currently lacking an experienced game code programmer so this new code would be slow in coming.
2] Why would you need to "improve" the source engine? I'm honestly asking. I know it isn't perfect, but its still good tech...
3] Yet source's lighting is still superior to that of Blood... you know, the whole point of this project.
4] Waste of time? As opposed to the time you've spent so well wishing another coder will come to a dying project full of stubborn and (arguably) lazy developers?
5] Welcome to 2006. Steam is not that bad, and nearly every gamer has an excellent machine capable of running any source engine game above 70fps. Steam runs thousands upon thousands of users, and valve happily announces new mods.
How many new players does transfusion have?
Do you even have a stable master server anymore?
Face it. It's time for you guys to get realistic here.
Ask yourself the hard question; DO YOU WANT TRANSFUSION DONE OR NOT?
It's time to stop the frustrated idealism, laziness, and wishful thinking.
At the rate you are going, transfusion will be done in 2015.
If you REALLY wanted this project badly enough you would throw some more elbow grease into the gears and try something new. Obviously, judging by the results currently manifested, what the transfusion team is doing is simply not leading to a finished mod.
If you REALLY wanted it done, you would do WHATEVER IT TAKES TO FINISH.
In the amount of time that has passed since the last transfusion patch you could have finished blood completely twice over with the source engine.
Stubborn developers without a game coder do not finish games. Period.
This project has been going on since before 2002. Make any excuse you want, you've had ample opportunity (and certainly ample time) to finish, but instead you have chosen an engine with near-zero support and even MORE difficulty in terms of development.
With HL2, even if you started from scratch you could get a basic DM mod done over the summer, with a team of 6-10, working 2 hours a day.
This is a modest estimate.
Tried diving into the source sdk? It's actually very impressive, especially from a coding standpoint.
You have two choices here:
1] MAKE AN HONEST DECISION about how badly you want this project done, and then go for it.
2] Go back to sulking in the darkness, wishing for a coder to fall from the sky and work on a dated engine, and accept reassurance and validation for your poor choices from the fanboys on this forum. Really. Go convince yourself that you "did all you could.", then construct an eloquent argument whining about your justifications for lack of progress.
Rationalize, or finish.
- Shadow Warrior
- Posts: 412
- Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 09:40 am
- Location: Blue Mountains, Australia
I wasn't sure whether to respond to this or not; I can't tell whether it's a troll, or someone just cranky that they don't get to play a game. I imagine the team feels quite insulted about being branded as lazy. I don't know if you remember your college days, but many of the team have real lives. We're not kids any more. Some of us are also disabled; I personally feel quite insulted that you would brand me as being lazy. That is why I feel that this isn't far off being a troll - someone who has stormed (back) in without bothering to check facts or ask questions. All the statements you have made about "not enough time" or "whatever it takes" or "stubborn developers"
Here's one rationale that you seem to have overlooked: open source. You make the claim that the Source engine doesn't need to be open to make the game. How about distribution? How about all the people who don't have HL2, and don't want to buy it just so they can run a single mod?
Here's another one: we never stopped anyone from making a HL/HL2 blood TC (aside from the legal issues such a team would have to be aware of). So, where is it? Where is the team that worked over the summer to complete this Blood DM mod? I seriously doubt that most of the current team would work with Source; I wouldn't. Meaning having to get new developers in - who could've been working on the mod all along.
I'm sorry that the game isn't done. I'm sorry we're not down on our knees proclaiming "my heart isn't in it" and telling you that we really don't want the game done and have merely been sitting around playing cards for years.
Lastly, I don't give in to demands. I'm not going to be frightened into the choices you lay down. Direct your anger elsewhere, maybe at something that isn't just a game.
Master of the Mask
- Posts: 872
- Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 09:28 am
- Location: Eau Claire, WI USA
You are missing many realizations that the Transfusion project stands for.
Firstly, we don't want to be depenant on any other game. We highly request people who play it to, frankly, own Blood, but even that is not a requirement. This is the first major strike against the Source engine. Secondly, the Source engine has much higher requirements that the DarkPlaces engine. While we don't intend to support the oldest machines around (in which case you should just be playing the original Blood anyway), we do want as many people to enjoy it as possible. The DarkPlaces engine is not based soley on next-generation specs, it has a very broad legacy support. Further, the DarkPlaces engine is officially supported on many non-Windows platforms, and pseudo-supported on even more.
So aside from dependancy on other games, my second point would be that our current engine is by no means incapable. In respect for what the Transfusion project needs, the DarkPlaces engine is not lacking in any way. In fact, the DarkPlaces engine is one of the most mod-friendly engines around. We were waiting for an option to merge two formats supported by the engine, which was a hold-back for a while, but have since decided to just switch from one to the other and skip the merge, since, I don't think a problem has arisen.
The third point here is that this isn't a game developement company. Everything is done as members find the time. What engine we use is completely irrelivant to this matter. Complaining about the time it takes a volunteer project is just absurd. If our income was dependant on it, it would definatly be another story, but this is our hobby, not our job.
And yet another point is, being volunteer based, time is already an issue, starting over from scratch on something more limited to our wants would be pointless and waste even more time, not to mention we would need to learn new tools and formats just to convert any content over.
So in summary: we're not switching engines. Period. It is not an issue of stubbornness, its an issue of common sense, using what we have & know, and supporting who we feel should be supported in our project, the fans of Blood. Not the fans of Blood who own HalfLife 2.
Seriously, get a clue. Switching engines sets any project back significantly. Then there is the fact that the Dark Places engine they are using is actually continually improving and is far from the original Quake engine.
Remember, Half-life 2's "Source" engine is just a glorified version of the engine for Half-life, which was based on Quake's source.
- Lead Mapper
- Posts: 1100
- Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:51 pm
- Location: Warsaw, Poland
That's the attitude which would make TF be finished by 2015.
And seriously - if you think we have time to work on this project like developers of HL2, or even like all those kids who spend thousands of hours modding for HL2, you are very mistaken. Believe it or not we actually have something called real lives, with lots of things to attend to. We have our families and our work.
Work and other duties come first, hobbies come second.
Maybe sad, but certainly true. At least for us.