Dusk...looks promising

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N0t_mINe
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Dusk...looks promising

Postby N0t_mINe » Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:42 pm



I'm sure many of you have already encountered dusk. Given that Blood is one of the listed influences, the review certainly has a place here. Personally, I wish the game was tilted more towards the build games end of the spectrum, but that's just bias on my part.
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Re: Dusk...looks promising

Postby BEAST » Mon Nov 21, 2016 01:39 am

I also discovered Dusk through this video, too. Gggmanlives's reviews and previews are fun to watch. :)

I hoped to play the demo after seeing this, but it was pulled from public access. I don't know how other You Tube critics got their hands on it in time. It's expecting a Steam release for 2017, but it's a shame the demo isn't available on Steam. Even if it is incomplete, I like what the team has accomplished so far. I got to give them credit for combining influences from Quake, Blood, and Redneck Rampage. I can think of thousands of ways they could take the influences further, and I don't know far they will go. I'll have to wait till Dusk is released to see how the finished game turns out. It reminds me a little bit of an idea I had which was Quake-like, too.

Personally, I wish the game was tilted more towards the build games end of the spectrum, but that's just bias on my part.


I would like to see that, too. I'd long to see boss fights which combine the emotionally dramatic boss fights of Blood (particularly Cheogh) with the epic freakishness of Quake's. The only games I've seen with a Build influence lately have been Doom mods/freeware releases, like The Adventures of Square, though they're mainly Duke inspired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD0cPAVy1IU

Although EDuke has plenty of awesome mods, like WG Realms 2, DNF 2013, and Blood Crossmatching, I've yet to see the modding community create a new original game with EDuke like the Square team did with GZDoom. How does one harness the best influences from Blood for an original game?
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Re: Dusk...looks promising

Postby N0t_mINe » Mon Nov 21, 2016 08:26 am

BEAST wrote:. How does one harness the best influences from Blood for an original game?



This is a tough one BEAST, I mean, etc face it, Blood is an acquired taste. I happen to love hit scanners, most people however, want projectiles they can dodge. Mid level baddies that can put the hurt on player are golden, especially when they move fast. In fact, an enemy that can match player's speed is a must. And flying! There must be enemies that can fly. I don't mean float either (sorry doomers). Delayed explosives might change the range weapon dynamic up a bit.
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Re: Dusk...looks promising

Postby N0t_mINe » Mon Nov 21, 2016 08:33 pm

bump, because the spammers might or might not be back.
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Re: Dusk...looks promising

Postby VGames » Mon Nov 21, 2016 09:54 pm

To me the only thing that made Blood so good was the atmosphere which includes characters, setting, and story. It's all so horror movie like but with cheese thrown in to add that morbid humor that really only Blood has done just right as far as old FPS go.

It was never the gameplay, which wasn't as exciting as Doom to me, or the weapons and items, which Duke Nukem/Shadow Warrior did so much better, or even the level design, which I think Blood did best. It was Caleb and the world that he was surrounded by. Get that atmosphere right and you've got a good spiritual successor to Blood.

Oh and mimes that can be killed. Got to be able to kill mimes.
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Re: Dusk...looks promising

Postby BEAST » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:54 pm

N0t_mINe wrote: Blood is an acquired taste. I happen to love hit scanners, most people however, want projectiles they can dodge. Mid level baddies that can put the hurt on player are golden, especially when they move fast. In fact, an enemy that can match player's speed is a must. And flying! There must be enemies that can fly. I don't mean float either (sorry doomers). Delayed explosives might change the range weapon dynamic up a bit.


It depends how hit scanners are handled, or at least, how the player controls, weapons, and gameplay are handled in order to make the hit scanners work. Some games with hit scanners I can't play on hard without cheating, and yet I've played hit scanner games on hard without cheating because it plays just right. I have yet to play Outlaws on hard, but I like that it gave me the rifle and scope so that I can take enemies out from a distance in wide areas. Return to Castle Wolfenstein's have hit scanners, yet even when the enemies are brutal, it's fun to take them out while crouched in tight corners, or by stabbing them in the back before they have a chance. I'm not too crazy about the hit scanners in Serious Sam, but I appreciate what the game is trying to go for. With Blood, depending on your DOS settings, control configuration, and thorough understanding of the game, can be an absolute blast on Extra Crispy, as this awesome playthrough on You Tube attests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzlrJ_PfMQw

I, too, appreciate enemies that match the speed of Blood's. I took for granted that Blood's gargoyles do fly, and not float the way the Lost Souls/Cacodemons/Pain Elementals of Doom and the Imps/Afrits/Death Wyverns of Heretic/Hexen do. I wonder how Monolith managed to pull that off.

Considering the programming prowess of Blood, it still makes me wonder what kind of QuakeC programming would be needed to replicate all that for Transfusion.

VGames wrote:To me the only thing that made Blood so good was the atmosphere which includes characters, setting, and story. It's all so horror movie like but with cheese thrown in to add that morbid humor that really only Blood has done just right as far as old FPS go.

It was never the gameplay, which wasn't as exciting as Doom to me, or the weapons and items, which Duke Nukem/Shadow Warrior did so much better, or even the level design, which I think Blood did best. It was Caleb and the world that he was surrounded by. Get that atmosphere right and you've got a good spiritual successor to Blood.

Oh and mimes that can be killed. Got to be able to kill mimes.


Indeed. The developers of Dusk probably have their minds made up on how to finish their game, but I still have ideas on how the project could go further. I hope they'll polish the player movement and weapon types to be Quake-like. There should be levels which combine the explorable town levels of Redneck with Blood's first episode's levels. If the player were to talk, I'd give him an Appalachian accent, and have him spout literary quotations. If they wanted to take the bosses further, they should have the bosses combine the epic nature of Cthon from Quake with the emotional dramatic nature of Cheogh. I still wish the rest of Blood's episodes were able to replicate the same emotional power of Cheogh for Shial, Cerberus, and Tchernobog.

If Dusk wanted to go further Blood, it has to have a carnival/freakshow level, with interactive freaks and circus performers who may be friends or foes.
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Re: Dusk...looks promising

Postby VGames » Fri Nov 25, 2016 04:20 am

Holy crap man good ideas. Dusk could be so much more. Wish I had more say so but hopefully we can channel our ideas in the dev teams direction.
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Re: Dusk...looks promising

Postby N0t_mINe » Fri Nov 25, 2016 03:00 pm

BEAST said:

"Quake-like"


That might hurt reputability, I hate to say it, but quake in a less abstract environment....cant quite put my finger on it. I skipped the more up to date pcgamer video on purpose . If you haven't seen it, 2 words;

jump pads. :|
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Re: Dusk...looks promising

Postby VGames » Sun Nov 27, 2016 02:58 am

NNNOOOOO!!!! :banghead:
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Re: Dusk...looks promising

Postby Manhs » Sun Nov 27, 2016 05:46 am

Im not really fan of the squared/cubic style in fps.....it's why i prefer 2.5D for it (for a lot of retro fps).

BLOOD had an awesome variety of weapon, like Shadow Warrior, with the alt. The gameplay is more supposed to make you feel some fear and force you to use some tactic, than run&gun (like heretic or doom).
I think, BLOOD is very interesting to play for the gameplay, it's not the fun of a run&gun fps (run, dodge fireballs, shoot and shoot), but it makes the gameplay of BLOOD unique, and scaring like the atmosphere itself.
It's a game You play more like a Golden Eye game where you must securize all the corner than rushing everywhere :)
My 2 favorites fps are BLOOD and Heretic and their gameplay are really opposite hehe, retro fps are not always the same ^__^

Shadow Warrior is very fun (i have played all the expansions) but the balance of the weapons is weird, i suppose you need to Sword start the maps to enjoy the caltrops, because when you have the grenade launcher, it kill everything x)
BLOOD is very balanced for the solo even without Pitchfork start :D

For DUSK, i will check the gameplay, more videos about it, i could give a try but the cubic style is weird for me......but the gameplay is more important and the atmosphere looks cool : p
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Re: Dusk...looks promising

Postby neznam » Sun Dec 11, 2016 03:11 am

Manhs wrote:Im not really fan of the squared/cubic style in fps.....it's why i prefer 2.5D for it (for a lot of retro fps).

BLOOD had an awesome variety of weapon, like Shadow Warrior, with the alt. The gameplay is more supposed to make you feel some fear and force you to use some tactic, than run&gun (like heretic or doom).
I think, BLOOD is very interesting to play for the gameplay, it's not the fun of a run&gun fps (run, dodge fireballs, shoot and shoot), but it makes the gameplay of BLOOD unique, and scaring like the atmosphere itself.
It's a game You play more like a Golden Eye game where you must securize all the corner than rushing everywhere :)
My 2 favorites fps are BLOOD and Heretic and their gameplay are really opposite hehe, retro fps are not always the same ^__^

Shadow Warrior is very fun (i have played all the expansions) but the balance of the weapons is weird, i suppose you need to Sword start the maps to enjoy the caltrops, because when you have the grenade launcher, it kill everything x)
BLOOD is very balanced for the solo even without Pitchfork start :D

For DUSK, i will check the gameplay, more videos about it, i could give a try but the cubic style is weird for me......but the gameplay is more important and the atmosphere looks cool : p


I must say I agree. I never understood the supposed allure of early 3d graphics, they're just too abstract. For me, digitised sprites always took the cake in aesthetic appeal.
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Re: Dusk...looks promising

Postby BEAST » Mon Jan 09, 2017 02:56 am

VGames wrote:Holy crap man good ideas. Dusk could be so much more. Wish I had more say so but hopefully we can channel our ideas in the dev teams direction.


Thanks, man. It may be too late to provide input. I just hope the finished product will exceed expectations.

N0t_mINe wrote:BEAST said:

"Quake-like"


That might hurt reputability, I hate to say it, but quake in a less abstract environment....cant quite put my finger on it. I skipped the more up to date pcgamer video on purpose . If you haven't seen it, 2 words;

jump pads. :|


I saw that. I don't know why they're implementing jump pads. Seems more like a component for a multiplayer game. The only FPS games I've encountered with jump pads were the original Rise of the Triad, Half-Life, and Quake III.

Manhs wrote:Im not really fan of the squared/cubic style in fps.....it's why i prefer 2.5D for it (for a lot of retro fps).

{...}

For DUSK, i will check the gameplay, more videos about it, i could give a try but the cubic style is weird for me......but the gameplay is more important and the atmosphere looks cool : p


Technically, the graphical are polygonal, not cubic. But I can see what you mean. It depends on how retro polygonal graphics are handled, especially in terms of textures, skins, level layouts, and gameplay.

neznam wrote:I must say I agree. I never understood the supposed allure of early 3d graphics, they're just too abstract. For me, digitised sprites always took the cake in aesthetic appeal.


The appeal for me was that early 3D graphics kinda resembled claymation in gaming form. Claymation relishes in abstract designs. Also, it helped that the best early 3D graphics games were blessed with good artists, and the gameplay to back it up. I recall a PC Gamer review of Quake which claimed that the reasons the visuals looked so good was really because of the game's artists rather than because of the engine itself. For me, best early 3D shooters from '95-'97 include Descent, Quake, Interstate '76, MDK, Jedi Knight, and Hexen II.

However much I love those types of games, I can see the pitfalls. While I was playing mods for Dark Forces and Jedi Knight/Mysteries of the Sith, I noticed how how much more the Star Wars visuals stood out in DF than it did in JK. In mods such as Prelude the Harkov's Defection and Condition Red, modders were able to pull off incredible visuals and levels due to the Jedi Engine being simple to use. The only things they couldn't mod into DF were functioning lightsabers and swimming. JK's engine is more complex and allows for larger levels and nifty effects, but its harder for modders to pull off the same tone that game as they would for DF. Even MotS, which is more flexible than JK, is limited in what it could pull off. I sometimes wish there was an engine port which combined the best aspects of DF and Outlaws with those of JK and MotS. This reminds me also of the mods I've played for Doom and Quake. I'm certainly impressed by Quake's mods, and yet recent Doom mods which use ZDoom and GZDoom have shown surprisingly better visuals, even though they still have design limitations. Can one create an engine which combines the best aspects of Doom with Quake?

If I were able to do retro 3D shooter of my own which paid homage to the past while incorporating modern gameplay, I'd probably settle for a cross between the graphics of Unreal, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, and No One Lives Forever, with some additional modern engine flexibility.
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Re: Dusk...looks promising

Postby Tchernobog » Tue Aug 08, 2017 04:39 am

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Re: Dusk...looks promising

Postby N0t_mINe » Tue Aug 08, 2017 06:54 am

That does look nice. With maps that are open enough for the gameplay but still require exploration. Definitely worth a checking out. :guns:
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Re: Dusk...looks promising

Postby VGames » Tue Aug 08, 2017 02:56 pm

Will look into this for sure. I like the art design. Like the hillbilly psychos with the potato sacks on their heads. Very eerie. One thing I'd like is for the weapons to sit on the side of the screen and not directly in the middle. Maybe I can mod it in.

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