Split: Blood TM cancled

Discuss and hash out the Blood universe here.

Moderator: General Discussion Moderators

User avatar
Slink

Not to be a dick, but...

Posts: 1913
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 04:42 am
Location: Niagara County, NY

Post by Slink » Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:39 am

Hmm... so they no longer claim the use of that name? ... :-?
User avatar
I Live...AGAIN
Cabal member
Posts: 771
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 05:33 am
Location: Detroit
Contact:

Post by I Live...AGAIN » Sat Nov 14, 2009 02:25 pm

You can call me a noob on legal stuff I guess, but i didnt know it was required to cancel a copyright.
I have never heard of that. What would be the purpose?

So someone else could obtain it? I mean, it doesn't cost any money to hold a copyright does it?

Also, if someone else wanted to obtain the copyright, wouldn't you want to sell it rather than just drop it?
User avatar
DustyStyx
2D Artist
Posts: 2069
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 02:12 am
Location: Salt Lake
Contact:

Post by DustyStyx » Sat Nov 14, 2009 03:05 pm

Those blasted spambots. Sorry cruxdusrial, I accidentally deleted your post. I wasn't reading and It looked a lot like one of the spambot threads.

Note: This quote was from 2 replies (Slink, ILA) up.
cruxdustrial wrote:I just confirmed, it isn't Blood 3. Monolith recently cancelled their copyright/trademark on the Blood franchise with no intention of using it now or in the future. The trademark on Shogo however is LIVE. And because Monolith DOES NOT own the rights to the NOLF franchise, my bet is on a Shogo 2.

Information on Blood :
Word Mark BLOOD
Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: computer game software, downloadable from a global computer network and available in CD-ROM format. FIRST USE: 19940822. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19970323
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 75302399
Filing Date May 28, 1997
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition March 24, 1998
Registration Number 2233394
Registration Date March 23, 1999
Owner (REGISTRANT) Monolith Productions, Inc. CORPORATION WASHINGTON 10517 N.E. 38th Place Kirkland WASHINGTON 98033
(LAST LISTED OWNER) WARNER BROS. ENTERTAINMENT INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE 4000 WARNER BOULEVARD TRADEMARK DEPT. BURBANK CALIFORNIA 91522
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record Avis Frazier-Thomas
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
Cancellation Date October 24, 2009

Information on Blood 2 The Chosen:
Word Mark BLOOD II: THE CHOSEN
Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Computer software, namely computer video game programs on CD ROM and DVD
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 75470824
Filing Date April 20, 1998
Current Filing Basis 1B
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition February 23, 1999
Owner (APPLICANT) Monolith Productions, Inc. CORPORATION WASHINGTON 10516 N.E. 37th Circle P. O. Box 3268 Kirkland WASHINGTON 98083
Attorney of Record KEVIN J COLLETTE
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
Abandonment Date November 19, 1999


In summary, Blood 3 is not happening. Say goodbye to the Blood franchise. Rest In Peace
User avatar
DustyStyx
2D Artist
Posts: 2069
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 02:12 am
Location: Salt Lake
Contact:

Post by DustyStyx » Sat Nov 14, 2009 03:15 pm

Looks like the listing is true... man this sucks.

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=d ... to6j3n.4.1
User avatar
zZaRDoZz
Acolyte
Posts: 416
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 03:13 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by zZaRDoZz » Sat Nov 14, 2009 04:13 pm

Dusty
Looks like the listing is true... man this sucks.
Why? I mean I'd like to think that most of the community has moved on from the notion of Blood sequel. Don't get me wrong, it's fun to speculate about. In the end however, we are all simply back to square one- not that we ever really left mind you. It is in the hands of the community now and has been since transfusion first started.


Welcome to square one! It's been your true home for a long time. We've eagerly and patiently awaited your arrival for ages. It's so good to see you again!


signed:
Reality


-Aimed at everyone, not just Dusty.
User avatar
DustyStyx
2D Artist
Posts: 2069
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 02:12 am
Location: Salt Lake
Contact:

Post by DustyStyx » Sat Nov 14, 2009 08:11 pm

Yeah, but it was still nice to muse about the idea of a Blood III. A few years back Jason Hall was talking about maybe doing something with it.

Not sure it's "back to square one" more like S.N.A.F.U
cruxdustrial
Cultist
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:19 pm

Post by cruxdustrial » Sat Nov 14, 2009 08:31 pm

I Live...AGAIN wrote:You can call me a noob on legal stuff I guess, but i didnt know it was required to cancel a copyright.
I have never heard of that. What would be the purpose?

So someone else could obtain it? I mean, it doesn't cost any money to hold a copyright does it?

Also, if someone else wanted to obtain the copyright, wouldn't you want to sell it rather than just drop it?
You've never heard of it? Copyrights are cancelled when there are no plans to use them. For example, Chrono Break is a trademark that Square Enix filed at one point with plans for doing a Chrono sequel/continuation, Square deliberately cancelled the trademark. If you read this entire thread, you'll see that I checked on the rights to the Blood IP back in June of this year, at that time I had hope that Monolith would return to the IP because the Blood copyright/trademark was listed as LIVE. However on October 24 of this year, Monolith cancelled their trademark/copyright, which means that they have no intentions of a Blood continuation or Blood 3.

Also, I did not directly link the information because it is a government website and as such, the sessions cancel out after a certain amount of time. You'll see that by clicking the direct link posted, it will say the session has cancelled out.

And as for Blood....

Blood :rip:

Goodbye.

Edit: *groans* why a Shogo 2. Ugh. And I hope Monolith reads this post, I'm going to make this clear as day, I will NOT be buying anymore F.E.A.R. games. For me, the F.E.A.R. franchise is done with, the storyline is over for me and the storyline really needs to die. F.E.A.R. and F.E.A.R. 2 really were not great games. Dear Monolith, please abandon the franchise.

Edit2: I wanted to make this information on the NOLF franchise available. Just in case anyone wants to confirm what I've said. Interestingly, the NOLF IP is listed as LIVE, so a NOLF continuation is possible, if Vivendi makes it so.

Word Mark NO ONE LIVES FOREVER
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Computer game software. FIRST USE: 20001103. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20001103
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 75980982
Filing Date January 18, 2000
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition October 3, 2000
Registration Number 2501040
Registration Date October 23, 2001
Owner (REGISTRANT) Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation CORPORATION DELAWARE 10201 West Pico Boulevard Los Angeles CALIFORNIA 90035
(LAST LISTED OWNER) VIVENDI GAMES, INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE 6060 CENTER DRIVE, 5TH FLOOR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA 90045
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record Rod A. Rigole
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

&

Word Mark NO ONE LIVES FOREVER
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: video game software; computer game CD-ROMS; video and computer game CD-ROMS adapted for use with television receivers. FIRST USE: 20001103. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20001103
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 75898321
Filing Date January 18, 2000
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition October 3, 2000
Registration Number 2735085
Registration Date July 8, 2003
Owner (REGISTRANT) Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation CORPORATION DELAWARE 10201 West Pico Boulevard Los Angeles CALIFORNIA 90035
(LAST LISTED OWNER) VIVENDI GAMES, INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE 6060 CENTER DRIVE, 5TH FLOOR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA 90045
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record Rod A. Rigole
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

&

Word Mark NO ONE LIVES FOREVER
Goods and Services IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: instructional and educational books in the field of computer and video games. FIRST USE: 20001001. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20001001
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 75898320
Filing Date January 18, 2000
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition December 19, 2000
Registration Number 2732522
Registration Date July 1, 2003
Owner (REGISTRANT) Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation CORPORATION DELAWARE 6060 Center Drive Los Angeles CALIFORNIA 90045
(LAST LISTED OWNER) VIVENDI GAMES, INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE 6060 CENTER DRIVE, 5TH FLOOR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA 90045
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record Rod A. Rigole
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

And as for the reason I think it's Shogo 2, here ya go:

Word Mark SHOGO
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: computer game programs. FIRST USE: 19981015. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19981015
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 75486217
Filing Date May 15, 1998
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition June 29, 1999
Registration Number 2279100
Registration Date September 21, 1999
Owner (REGISTRANT) Monolith Productions, Inc. CORPORATION WASHINGTON 10516 NE 37th Circle Kirkland WASHINGTON 98033
(LAST LISTED OWNER) WARNER BROS. ENTERTAINMENT INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE 4000 WARNER BOULEVARD C/O TRADEMARK DEPT. BURBANK CALIFORNIA 91522
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record Avis Frazier-Thomas
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

Edit3: On F.E.A.R. 2 and why the FEAR series should just die with FEAR 2 and let be, see Zero Punctuation's review of FEAR 2, which as far as I'm concerned, is dead on accurate.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... 565-Fear-2
User avatar
I Live...AGAIN
Cabal member
Posts: 771
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 05:33 am
Location: Detroit
Contact:

Post by I Live...AGAIN » Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:45 am

Dusty wrote:You've never heard of it? Copyrights are cancelled when there are no plans to use them.
I understand that, but my question is why go to the trouble of canceling it?
Is there some type of standard time limit that you can hold a copyright?
I'll ask this again. Is there some type of continual fee for holding a copyright?
Is there some type of punishment involved with holding a copyright and not doing anything new with it?

I'm just curious as to why they would go to the trouble of legally recording that they will never make another one.

As far as the news goes, I had given up hope long ago that the franchise would continue so I cant say this is a total surprise. Even if someone did try to make a Blood 3 in today's age, most die-hards wouldn't like it
anyway. it would just be too different.
Besides as Dusty has mentioned, would you really want to see Monolith attempt a sequel anyway after seeing FEAR and FEAR 2? Lith is a much different company than it used to be. Maybe this will open the door for another entity to do a sequel?

On a brighter note, I loved Shogo. I wouldn't mind seeing another in the series at all.
cruxdustrial
Cultist
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:19 pm

Post by cruxdustrial » Sun Nov 15, 2009 02:59 am

ILA,

(Note: WBIE = Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment, a division of Warner Bros. which by extention is a division of Time Warner)

I have tried repeatedly to explain what happened here. I guess I'm just not good at explaining things. I'm not very good with words. Of the many imprisonments possible in our world, one of the worst must be to be inarticulate - to be unable to tell another person what you really feel. I'm sorry people, I'm trying. Really.

Okay, so, let's see, where to begin. Originally, the rights to Blood were owned by what is now Atari (previously Infogrames, previously GT Interactive). Sometime between October 1999 (when GT Interactive was taken over by Infogrames) and June 2009 (when I checked on who owns the rights to the Blood IP) Monolith obtained the rights to Blood from what is now Atari. Monolith was aquired in 2004 by WBIE. It is my belief that Monolith obtained the rights to the Blood IP AFTER it was taken over by WBIE. Why do I believe this? Because the records reflect that Blood was obtained from Atari by WBIE and not by Monolith. You can see this for yourself as the records show the last listed owner. Notice how it says Warner Bros. and not Monolith. That's why I think they were obtained after the WBIE takeover.

Also, it is clear that there were intentions for a Blood continuation, but this never materailized and plans fell through. As to why they fell through, maybe WBIE looked at the situation again and thought Blood would not be profitable. Maybe the 2008 economic crisis affected it and the Blood IP was a victim of that. What is clear is that Monolith or WBIE acquired the rights, which alone indicates their plan to use such rights, why else would they go out of their way to buy back the rights from Atari? Now Atari as you know, had no plans for a Blood continuation and has suffered alot economically so they were happy to sell the Blood rights and probably did so at a fairly low price.

However due to whatever circumstances or reasons, by fall of 2009, WBIE had NO intentions of doing a Blood continuation and cancelled their copyright. There is no reason to keep a copyright active unless you are going to use it. WBIE isn't the only one who has done this. For example, ElectronicArts renewed their copyright on System Shock in December 2005 with plans for a System Shock 3. System Shock 3 was quietly cancelled and EA cancelled their copyright/trademark on System Shock in 2007.

As for what to do now, it is my hope, and I believe it should be your hope too, that we all hope for a spiritual successor to the Blood series. That's the best we can hope for.

I say all of this with love.
Over and out.

(A further clarification, it was because WBIE renewed their copyright on Blood with the US Government that they cancelled their renewal, in other words, they changed their mind after submitting a request for renewal.)
I understand that, but my question is why go to the trouble of canceling it?
They initially issued a renewal but then wanted to retract the renewal.
Is there some type of standard time limit that you can hold a copyright?
Yes. Some copyrights/trademarks last 6 years, some 8 years, some 12. Etc. etc. Usually video game trademarks can be issued for a period of 6 years or 8 years and then renewed after that.
I'll ask this again. Is there some type of continual fee for holding a copyright?
Short answer, no. Long answer, it depends. A continual fee, no, as the trademark/copyright self expires after a certain period of time. However it is illegal to file a false trademark/copyright and have nothing to back that up.
Is there some type of punishment involved with holding a copyright and not doing anything new with it?
There can be. The real punishment is that the copyright expires if not renewed.
I'm just curious as to why they would go to the trouble of legally recording that they will never make another one.
It is because they originally had intentions to do something with it. But it didn't work out. Games get cancelled all the time. It's not unique. Why go through all the trouble of copyrighting/trademarking Chrono Break and not do anything with it. Because SquareEnix did try to do a Chrono Break and it didn't work out. This is because they could not get the members of the original team to work on it that they wanted, who now mostly are solo or work for different companies.
On a brighter note, I loved Shogo. I wouldn't mind seeing another in the series at all.
For you then, I hope it is Shogo 2.

Blood is one of my favorite video games of all time. I know many of you feel the same. This is tragic news, indeed. But AT LEAST WE KNOW. It is better to know than to not know. At least we, as Blood fans, have closure now. :rip:

P.S. I <3 Blood 2: The Chosen. I know that is an unpopular position to take but to me, it's a classic. Not as good as Blood, obviously. Also, IN B4 zZaRDoZz lolz at my position on Blood 2.
Last edited by cruxdustrial on Mon Nov 16, 2009 04:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Tchernobog
Tchernobog's Love Child
Posts: 1223
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 07:30 am
Location: Rural Alberta, Canada
Contact:

Post by Tchernobog » Sun Nov 15, 2009 05:36 am

Okay, let me get this straight in my head. You are telling me that the Trademarks and Copyright for the Blood Franchise has lapsed. No one currently holds the rights to Blood. And this is making people sad?

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't this mean that another studio or group could now be free to make a new Blood game without fear of legal retribution? Does this mean that Blood could possibly live again under a different banner?
cruxdustrial wrote:I have tried repeatedly to explain what happened here. I guess I'm just not good at explaining things. I'm not very good with words. Of the many imprisonments possible in our world, one of the worst must be to be inarticulate - to be unable to tell another person what you really feel. I'm sorry people, I'm trying. Really.
*shameless plug* You could make a Blood Wiki article explaining the whole thing. It might be an easier way to show people what you are talking about. And of course, I would be grateful for the contribution. :wink: *plug ends*
cruxdustrial wrote:P.S. I <3 Blood 2: The Chosen. I know that is an unpopular position to take but to me, it's a classic. Not as good as Blood, obviously. Also, IN B4 zZaRDoZz lolz at my position on Blood 2.
I love Blood II just as much as the original Blood, through in different ways, for they are different games. It is like how I hold the original Doom holy yet still love Doom 3.
cruxdustrial wrote:
On a brighter note, I loved Shogo. I wouldn't mind seeing another in the series at all.
For you then, I hope it is Shogo 2.
Amen to that, although it would not be worth it if they do not respect the wishes of their many Linux fans, hint, hint....

EDIT: Oh, and zZaRDoZz, sorry I have not been able to check over your thing yet. I have been very busy since the beginning of November. I promise to take a look at what you have sent me soon.
Blood of Nightmares
Zealot
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 07:56 pm

Post by Blood of Nightmares » Sun Nov 15, 2009 05:39 am

Tchernobog wrote:Okay, let me get this straight in my head. You are telling me that the Trademarks and Copyright for the Blood Franchise has lapsed. No one currently holds the rights to Blood. And this is making people sad?
I think the part that people are sad about is there is going to be no official Blood sequel while the rest is good news.
cruxdustrial
Cultist
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:19 pm

Post by cruxdustrial » Sun Nov 15, 2009 05:46 am

Okay, let me get this straight in my head. You are telling me that the Trademarks and Copyright for the Blood Franchise has lapsed. No one currently holds the rights to Blood. And this is making people sad?
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't this mean that another studio or group could now be free to make a new Blood game without fear of legal retribution? Does this mean that Blood could possibly live again under a different banner?
Yes, sir.
I love Blood II just as much as the original Blood, through in different ways, for they are different games. It is like how I hold the original Doom holy yet still love Doom 3.
Agreed.
cruxdustrial wrote:
On a brighter note, I loved Shogo. I wouldn't mind seeing another in the series at all.
For you then, I hope it is Shogo 2.
Amen to that, although it would not be worth it if they do not respect the wishes of their many Linux fans, hint, hint....
ID software has a history of supporting Linux. Has monolith ever supported linux? Just wondering. I wasn't sure if Blood or Blood 2 had ever been ported to Linux.

One thing I did want to mention is that, even though the rights to Blood are a free for all, there is a risk of legal action. It would not be without precedent. For example, there was a project by fans to port System Shock 2 to the Doom 3 engine. EA wrote the project leader and THREATENED to take legal action against him if he did not cease and desist. They cancelled the project for fear of legal action. Yet even the project leader noted the legal ambiguity of the situation for EA does not own the rights to System Shock. He even linked EA's trademark page. What they were doing was making a mod for Doom 3. A free mod. This was not like it was going to be some commercial project and they were not going to profit off it. They were fans of SS2 who simply wanted to update it with a new graphics engine and release it as a free mod for D3.

See here:

http://www.ea.com/2/legal-notices

That is an exhaustive list of all their copyrights and trademarks. Yet no mention is made of System Shock. They do not even on their site claim to own the rights to System Shock. When I contacted copyright@ea.com to inquire about why System Shock is not mentioned and how they could threaten legal actions, I did not recieve a reply. They totally ignored me.
Last edited by cruxdustrial on Sun Nov 15, 2009 06:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Tchernobog
Tchernobog's Love Child
Posts: 1223
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 07:30 am
Location: Rural Alberta, Canada
Contact:

Post by Tchernobog » Sun Nov 15, 2009 06:08 am

cruxdustrial wrote:ID software has a history fo supporting Linux. Has monolith ever supported linux? Just wondering. I wasn't sure if Blood or Blood 2 had ever been ported to Linux.
Yes and no. Monolith has never released a Linux port itself, although a Monolith employee called Jeremy "Loki" Blackman did at one point try and port the original LithTech to Linux, but that did not seem to go anywhere in the end. Shogo was later ported by Hyperion Entertainment. Monolith published Gorky 17 was also ported by Hyperion, and published by Linux Game Publishing.
cruxdustrial wrote:One thing I did want to mention is that, even though the rights to Blood are a free for all, there is a risk of legal action. It would not be without precedent. For example, there was a project by fans to port System Shock 2 to the Doom 3 engine. EA wrote the project leader and THREATENED to take legal action against him if he did not cease and desist. They cancelled the project for fear of legal action. Yet even the project leader noted the legal ambiguity of the situation for EA does not own the rights to System Shock. He even linked EA's trademark page.
Okay, we just need to get another Studio interested who has good lawyers... :P

EDIT: Look at this link, four of these are Monolith games...
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/reviews/23 ... ove-to-See
cruxdustrial
Cultist
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:19 pm

Post by cruxdustrial » Sun Nov 15, 2009 06:18 am

Okay, we just need to get another Studio interated who has good lawyers... :P
I wish. To me, a Blood III means redemption, literal salvation in today's video game industry. Because to me, Blood is holy, sacred, etc.
EDIT: Look at this link, four of these are Monolith games...
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/reviews/23 ... ove-to-See
Very interesting. Thank you for linking this. It's not surprising. A few things need to be mentioned.

An Alien Vs. Predator 3 is happening, to be released in the first half of 2010. It is being developed by Rebellion (developers of AvP1). Monolith/WBIE does not, sadly, have the rights to the AVP franchise.

Shogo 2......you may just get your wish.

But Monolith had many classics. Shogo, Blood, AvP are among the top. They use to be such f*** awesome developers. Somewhere along the line, the fire was lost.
User avatar
Tchernobog
Tchernobog's Love Child
Posts: 1223
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 07:30 am
Location: Rural Alberta, Canada
Contact:

Post by Tchernobog » Sun Nov 15, 2009 06:55 am

cruxdustrial wrote:I wish. To me, a Blood III means redemption, literal salvation in today's video game industry. Because to me, Blood is holy, sacred, etc.
You would have a hard time finding anyone who would disagree with you on this forum...
cruxdustrial wrote:But Monolith had many classics. Shogo, Blood, AvP are among the top. They use to be such f*** awesome developers. Somewhere along the line, the fire was lost.
I have only played Blood, Blood II, and Shogo, but that is still enough for me to agree with you. They were something special. Hopefully someone else might recapture a spark from that fire. :|
Post Reply