Blood conversion for Doom2

Discuss and hash out the Blood universe here.

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Slink

Not to be a dick, but...

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Post by Slink » Fri Jan 25, 2008 04:26 am

I Live...AGAIN wrote:You not liking it is understandable, you degrading someone elses hard work when all they are trying to do is keep the spirit alive is not.....
THERE it is!... :D See? That's the rub. Don't do that, okay?

Voice your opinion if you feel the need, but please don't use it as a vehicle with which to destroy someone else's efforts at creativity (in any form).

Remember, if you don't have anything nice to say,...
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Post by Guest » Mon Jan 28, 2008 01:43 pm

Hi, again, Flamer Guest lives again, got real connection issues, and so...
Slink wrote:
I Live...AGAIN wrote:You not liking it is understandable, you degrading someone elses hard work when all they are trying to do is keep the spirit alive is not.....
THERE it is!... :D See? That's the rub. Don't do that, okay?

Voice your opinion if you feel the need, but please don't use it as a vehicle with which to destroy someone else's efforts at creativity (in any form).

Remember, if you don't have anything nice to say,...
QTF.
Real words of truth what you guys posted.
psyren (guest) wrote:For those who were offended by that "guest" poster criticising/defending whatever point it was he was trying to make, (I don't understand the outburst myself) DoomwadStation was said to have changed ownership, though it seems to have vanished altogether
You made nonsense about what was easily explained, my bitching reason was posted, whenever you see any reasons or not, no one quite bitched back, but heh, let's chill it.
Dimebog wrote:Just rename the project to something like DoomBlood, and people may accept it for what it is - a DOOM mod which uses some of BLOOD's art and sounds
I don't care, but I think you should let it be whatever it wants to be.

Cutting boring Shakespeare style post...
Dimebog wrote:So all I have are these two questions:
1. What IS the intention behind ZBlood?
2. Is it possible to port it to legacy D2 engine, and thus find for it a practical use?

When I understand those two things, I will be able to justly review it
It's just a Blood port that was made for ZDoom, hoping just to be a nice TC about Blood, not just another project trying to just port everthing about Blood, I specially enjoy it on Multiplayer, as you can guess, the TC's pretty good for that, too.
You probably won't care about my opinion, but that's probably what it was, since the auths comments were something like that.

Everything can be ported, unless we start refering things like EDGE, but I read that I live AGAIN played ZBlood on an old DENG version without too much problems, or that's what he said back then.
Legacy, for example, is a good Source-Port, and if you knew how to mess with it, you could work on a better TC, but it's latest version is being developed since long time ago, I would ask anyone to rethink if they wanted to make a TC for a Source-Port that's like that right now, which is the same case for DENG.
That's why I said that ZBlood can get better if it's properly ported, but they're probably not updating it, since there hasn't been a release nor anything since, blah, IDK.

Knowing that Transfusion is intented to feature all that couldn't be made on the Doom engine back then, I didn't think a Shadow Warrior TC would be bad, but I've been seriously looking for information about if it would be possible, and no, it can't be done with the Shadow Warrior engine, but I must point that a TC for EDuke32 would be pretty nifty right now, with things like Duke Plus, but I doubt if it would be more legal than ZBlood can be, really :lol:.
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Post by Caleb --2nd » Mon Jan 28, 2008 03:24 pm

when i think about it
blood 2 convertion to doom 3
will be funny to see and play
its great idea actually.
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Post by Dimebog » Mon Jan 28, 2008 05:52 pm

Anonymous wrote:Everything can be ported, unless we start refering things like EDGE, but I read that I live AGAIN played ZBlood on an old DENG version without too much problems, or that's what he said back then.
Legacy, for example, is a good Source-Port, and if you knew how to mess with it, you could work on a better TC, but it's latest version is being developed since long time ago, I would ask anyone to rethink if they wanted to make a TC for a Source-Port that's like that right now, which is the same case for DENG.
No, I forgot about the Legacy port. When I said "legacy" I meant classic Doom2. Original Doom2 map format. Can that be done? That would bring a meaning to the whole deal - bloodbath on cellphones (sort of). I'd like to have that. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to kick out DOOM stuff out of it along the way. I just can't understand why it has to be there. It's forced in for no apparent reason.
Anonymous wrote:Knowing that Transfusion is intented to feature all that couldn't be made on the Doom engine back then, I didn't think a Shadow Warrior TC would be bad, but I've been seriously looking for information about if it would be possible, and no, it can't be done with the Shadow Warrior engine, but I must point that a TC for EDuke32 would be pretty nifty right now, with things like Duke Plus, but I doubt if it would be more legal than ZBlood can be, really :lol:.
Wrong. What couldn't be done on the Doom engine back then, cannot be done now, same goes for EDuke32. You cannot truly port BLOOD's architecture in either of those engines or any of their sourceports, old or current. BLOOD's engine is completely different. Not even the latest Duke ports support mirror stacking, and probably never will. And well, DOOM and it's ports don't support ANY kind of stacking at all. All BLOOD levels use both 3D stacking and mirror stacking, and very often, both in conjunction.
Anonymous wrote:Cutting boring Shakespeare style post...
Making fun of my writing habits isn't too polite considering that English isn't my first language.
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Slink

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Post by Slink » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:06 pm

So I skimmed over most of this garbage and I have to mention that I didn't notice discussion of legality. Redistribution of Blood media (art, sound) is copyright infringement, so only those who legally own a legit copy of blood may download such content legally.

If I were to include blood media in a production, I would AT LEAST include that in the disclaimer. Sorry to get a little off-topic.

I almost always enjoy seeing reuse of game material, but some companies don't. Oh well.
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Post by Guest » Tue Jan 29, 2008 08:57 am

Dimebog wrote:Not even the latest Duke ports support mirror stacking, and probably never will. And well, DOOM and it's ports don't support ANY kind of stacking at all. All BLOOD levels use both 3D stacking and mirror stacking, and very often, both in conjunction
You can use some tricks to do what you think it can't be done on EDuke32, but yes, nothing compared...
Anonymous wrote:Cutting boring Shakespeare style post...
Making fun of my writing habits isn't too polite considering that English isn't my first language[/quote]
I never planned to make fun of your grammar, nor your way to post, but I did cut what I would call a big rant about entirely Blood in a ZBlood Thread, I don't want to lose even more time posting here like this.
And English is not my main language, too, so I don't understand your point, if I didn't intend to be completely unpolite, but rather ignore some things.
Slink wrote:So I skimmed over most of this garbage and I have to mention that I didn't notice discussion of legality. Redistribution of Blood media (art, sound) is copyright infringement, so only those who legally own a legit copy of blood may download such content legally.

If I were to include blood media in a production, I would AT LEAST include that in the disclaimer. Sorry to get a little off-topic.

I almost always enjoy seeing reuse of game material, but some companies don't. Oh well
Yeah, but if anyone ever planned a Duke3D TC, they first would need to ask Joe Siegler, and you know that this project is ephic phail with real emphasis.
guest psyren

Post by guest psyren » Tue Jan 29, 2008 07:22 pm

Still trying to join as I think it's important to show I am one of you, like it or not. Darn login won't accept me yet so I must remain a guest.

Well, I apologise for offending anyone at all; not Monolith or Atari, and certainly not any Blood player.

As I think I mentioned before, ZBlood was never intended to replace Blood. It's a Doom mod and nothing more.

I'm not familiar enough with the technical aspects of Build. But playing all three main games for many years, I didn't realise Blood was any different than Duke or Shadow Warrior, except cosmetically. It always seemed to me that a fellow smart enough to map for Duke/SW could make a Blood TC out of either of those games easy enough. OK, you say that's not possible? Sure seems like it would be 1000% better than anything made with ANY Doom-based engine.

The legality issue has also been discussed/argued many times before. I say it's just a Doom mod. Many of them exist, using resources from anything imaginable: The Simpsons, Alien, Evil Dead, Nintendo, etc. No one ever imagines it is going to compete with legitimate markets, and, to the best of my knowledge, there have never been any lawsuits or cease and decist orders sent out to those making them.* They are fan projects, made for fun and free to all.

We give all credit to the Monolith artists. Software companies are notorious for paying programmers and artists next to nothing for all their dedicated work, then make loads selling it. (Same for any other business really) I doubt the people at Atari even know the names of those that created Blood, nor does it really matter. That doesn't make it legal to steal from them, and I don't see that we are.

If Atari is losing any money from our pitiful little project, it is only because we are introducing new people to a great old game, and when they ask, "Where can I buy this?" you have to tell them, "Try ebay or Amazon, the manufacturer is no longer producing it." Heck, 3D Realms is still selling Duke Nukem.

*3D Realms HAS shut down several Duke related projects because they ARE still selling it. Still, they leave Doom mods out of the line of fire. Why? No version of Doom, nor modern source-port of Doom, can do anything but come close to Build. (NO ONE is going to play the shareware Duke and a free Doom mod, and then decide the Doom version is better - unless that person is already on leave from a mental institution and shouldn't be anywhere near a computer.)

Why not keep selling One Unit Whole Blood? The market isn't big enough and never really was. We are a miniscule fraction of the game buying public. Huge software companies want to sell MILLIONS, not 100s or 1000s. They aren't interested.

Does anyone imagine that ANY company will ever release a Blood3? Man, that is sure a nice dream to think about. I imagine it would be something like Transfusion plans to do - update Blood to a true 3D engine. That was what "The Chosen" should have been.

Blood2 tried, but they should have used the old enemies rather than making new ones, in my worthless opinion. Suited Cultists and soldiers were fine, but nothing else seemed like Blood except Calebs voice every now and then.

In this day and age, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Atari let Transfusion members make the whole game for them, then take it away, citing "unauthorised use" of resources, and sell it themselves as "Blood3: The Way It Should Have Been".

Truth be known: whomever it might have been from Monolith that gave Transfusion permission to use the Blood graphics doesn't really have the legal right to do so. As an artist, I painted some of the murals in the Luxor hotel, Las Vegas. Does that mean I own a part of the hotel? No. It means I'm a simple artist that was paid for what I created. Sad, but true, that's the way it goes. It all belongs to Atari now. They paid for the rights, fair and square I suppose. If some dumbarse lawyer wants to challenge what I started, then I am game. As far as I know, no one has ever attacked a Blood project except the fans = A cult following that I am also a part of.

Bothers me like it did Caleb when his faith seemed to dissolve around him
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Post by Dimebog » Tue Jan 29, 2008 09:11 pm

guest psyren wrote:It always seemed to me that a fellow smart enough to map for Duke/SW could make a Blood TC out of either of those games easy enough. OK, you say that's not possible? Sure seems like it would be 1000% better than anything made with ANY Doom-based engine.
Yes, it would not be possible. Remember your take on BLOOD's e1m1? The reason you changed the ending? Because the upper floor of the Morningside Funeral Home could not have been stacked onto the lower one, and combined with the mirror stacking trick to allow you to see and access both floors from the yard. You can't do that in Duke either. All BLOOD levels use that, and that's the monumental difference that makes BLOOD's engine GALAXIES away from Duke's. There's allot more to it, but I'm just pointing out the most obvious example. So, no, it's not just the cosmetics.

And I don't understand why would anyone want to make a dumbed-down BLOOD on an inferior engine. I begin to understand your intentions behind ZBlood - I don't like a BLOOD/Doom mix, but I can relate to it (both games are somewhat mystical and combine gothic art and the occult, with technology). But BLOOD/Duke mix? These games have nothing in common.
guest psyren wrote:In this day and age, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Atari let Transfusion members make the whole game for them, then take it away, citing "unauthorised use" of resources, and sell it themselves as "Blood3: The Way It Should Have Been".
Atari can't make Blood3, but Monolith. And if they would do it, Craig Hubbard would be the one to design it and not a handful of Quake modders. And it would not be called "Blood3: The Way It Should Have Been", but "Blood3: More Money, More F.E.A.R."
guest psyren wrote:Truth be known: whomever it might have been from Monolith that gave Transfusion permission to use the Blood graphics doesn't really have the legal right to do so.
Truth be told, it wasn't Monolith, but Atari. Namely, Infogrames, to be more precise. They own neither of the two games, and never did. They just bought the trademark (rendering Monolith unable to use it if they should decide to make a new BLOOD game. But hey, they can't use the word FEAR for it's sequel but they're making it anyway). However, that's probably not the case either anymore, since Time Warner Company now owns both Monolith and Atari.

As, for the copyright issues.... Well noone here really bitched so I don't see why you are stressing that so much.
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Post by DustyStyx » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:06 pm

I'm not sure Warner has any ties to Atari just now. Warner sold Atari to Hasbro back in 1998, where it kinda morphed into Infogrames and then back to Atari... along the way it did buy up GT Interactive and with it the right to publish Blood and Blood 2. At this time I think they are still independent entities... at least that's according to Wikipedia.

There are a few images floating around of a Blood 2 jewel case with the Infogrames logo on it, so they actually did have the right to print copies. I'll see if I can find that image again.

Monolith Productions became a subsidiary of Warner in 2004... this was in a low period for Atari and may be when Warner snapped up the TM for Blood.

Atari may still have the right to publish Blood and Blood 2. However, Monolith seems to have the right, through Warner, to make a new Blood game... Atleast on the monolith website it specifically states "BLOOD™ Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc."

Transfusion (QBlood at the time) was granted the permission to use the "copyrighted materials from the videogames Blood and Blood 2" on quitclaim basis, by Infogrames in August of 2002.

Who actually owns the copyright to Blood now is hard to tell as none of the previous parties involved seem to be talking.

Edit: Willis has a copy.
Image

Edit2: Found another version
Image
Last edited by DustyStyx on Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:27 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Post by Caleb --2nd » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:12 pm

The middle one is the original box but afcoruse you edit your post
so its just was black without actionreplay or bestof that we bought 10 years or 9 years ago.
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Post by Lioyd_Irving » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:24 am

Hey,

The Blood conversion went its way !
It now features Blood guns, hi-res sprites, the Voodoo doll, and Guns Akimbo !
I strongly recommend it !
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Post by Caleb --2nd » Mon Mar 03, 2008 01:09 pm

can you guys tell me where i can download The Blood conversion ?
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Post by Mangetsu » Mon Mar 03, 2008 08:29 pm

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Post by Doorhenge » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:55 am

This is not version 4.1, it's version 4.0. I can't believe you put this one up for download. I had it up for only an hour on a server before I realized it was broken. it's impossible to advance after Camp Crystal Lake because I broke something on the mapinfo while messing around with it. Please remove that version from filefront or replace it and use this one.

http://doorhenge.890m.com/
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Post by Mangetsu » Sun Mar 23, 2008 08:17 pm

Hello again, TFn.
Sir Doomhedge, the Mirror isn't mine, you should care about bitching to the Source of the Files, not the Users who distribute the content.
That, and keep working on ZBlood, your WAD is 10/10, on the Doom's basis criteria.

BTW, ZBlood can be normally found & downloable on two Doom Multiplayer Source-Ports, specially Skulltag, if any Mirror doesn't work.
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