Transfusion: a Repurposing

General discussion relating to the Transfusion project.

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Postby Guest » Thu Mar 25, 2010 02:45 am

yeah the code was never lost, and it obvious its one of the programmers who have it, traditionally, during development, programmers would take their work home with them to work on (even though they werent supposed to) its human nature, especially if a particular problem is wracking you and you want to figure it out soon (as I sometimes do during these moments). It has only been recently revealed that it was that M had the code, although I already knew this for 2 reasons:

1. He had Dukes code as well, and revealed that many years ago, so it wouldnt be far off to guess he has the code of every project he was involved with,

2. M would have worked as a liason at the time, so naturally he would be used to holding on to it, in case something happened.

Couple this with the habit of coders taking their work with them/making personal backups, we know why hes got it.
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zZaRDoZz
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Postby zZaRDoZz » Thu Mar 25, 2010 02:32 pm

Slink:
AFAIK, a certain someone from the Monolith Productions of Blood's heyday has the code. The only thing that 'Lith has lost is interest.


MS needs to take that code, put it in a trashcan, and set it on fire, all while making a youtube of the event. Then, maybe, the people who mod for blood will get the respect and support they deserve. Meanwhile MS can sleep soundly knowing people will stop torturing themselves over code that will never be released.

A number of you might want go back to edit your posts with a yea or nay, as it pertains to the reason the thread was started. The future of blood is important to anyone who happens to think Blood was one of the greatest shooters ever made. This involves everyone who agrees with that sentiment, whether they consider themselves pro-transfusion or not.

This is all about your opinions, there are no wrong answers here.

So far:

Nay:
Ransu
leileilol
a6ela

Yea:
zZaRDoZz
Dusty
BON

undecided:
Bloodite (I'm putting you down as undecided)
ILA
Wirm
Erlic
Tchernobog (corrected)
Last edited by zZaRDoZz on Thu Mar 25, 2010 07:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tchernobog » Thu Mar 25, 2010 06:48 pm

As I am still not exactly sure what is meant by the re-purposing, I am not sure If I still count as a "nay" actually. As far as I am aware this would allow people to contribute content which is not directly Blood related to the project, yes? As long as the main project goal is still there, which is primarily Blood content, I guess I would be okay with it. So I guess I count as undecided, maybe... :P
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Postby zZaRDoZz » Thu Mar 25, 2010 08:05 pm

@Tchernobog: Fixed
Also from Tcherny:
As I am still not exactly sure what is meant by the re-purposing,


I'm not sure we're being asked to add our support for a new plan as Dusty said he'd lock this thread and make some new proposals in time.

I think what were being asked is to allow Transfusion to drop it's stated intention to replicate blood as closely as possible. After that's been pinned down, We'll have a new thread to talk about where to go from there.
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Postby DustyStyx » Thu Mar 25, 2010 09:39 pm

Hopefully this might help clarify the proposal.

A re-purposing would mean a shift from "Replicate Blood" as our primary goal, to a goal of supporting community efforts in story telling.

In truth, the main goal of the Transfusion trunk would still be to replicate Blood. But in so far as the community expectations go it's my opinion that we should be honest and just say: “Not in the foreseeable future. But enough about us, how can we help you?”

Basically we would be saying:
This is pretty much all we are going to actively do with Transfusion. If you have an idea for a story, feel free to use Transfusion to make it happen. In the likely event that you need something from Blood or Blood II added to the Transfusion trunk, or if you feel something could have been done better, we can help make it possible for you, as well as maybe help out with other parts of your mod (depending on the individual developer's preference). Subsequently, the replicated Blood components would then be added to future releases of the trunk, probably along side the story branch it supports.

In respect of the drama we had last year in relation of improper use of copyrighted materials, we would have to clearly outline rules about the rights people have to use Blood materials, and other third-party copyrighted materials in so far as expecting official help from the Transfusion team.

For instance, if some one wanted to do a mod that uses materials from Blood as well as materials from other games as we've seen happen in most of the xenoBlood mods, they would not be officially supported*. But say some one wants to do something wholly original for the Blood mythos, and they want to use Transfusion to make it (cough)Blood III(/cough). Such a project should be fully supported, even above the goal of replicating Blood, because new content is what keeps the community moving along.

If we eventually reach the elusive goal of “Replicate Blood” along the way, all the better.

----------------------
* Note: Because of the open nature of Transfusion, we can't stop some one from making a mod that might use third-party materials. All we can really do is strike our fingers and say “Ah-ba-ba-bah.”

** I said I'd lock the thread after 30 days because that should be more than enough time to debate an action and either reject or act upon it.
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Postby JuiceCartel » Fri Mar 26, 2010 05:39 am

Hey hows it going people? I'm new to the board but not to Blood or Transfusion. I've been playing Blood since it came out and I also played the last version of Transfusion back in...2008 I would say. I had an account here before but I completely forgot the information so I had to make a new one.

Anyway, I would vote Yea. I'm not sure about all the technical details and doings here for Transfusion, but I do beleive it's just time to move on. Maybe someday someone here or someone in general will create a remake of Blood with the Crysis or Source engine.

I've always thought it would be great to see Blood recreated with a next generation engine. Just imagaine all the possiblities and how stunning it would look...Maybe someday Monolith will get their stuff together and create a remake of Blood to put up on XBLA or PS3. That would be the day, huh?

What all of you have done is pretty impressive. I'll say it again, I'm not sure of all the technical stuff but from what I gather this engine is completely self made, yeah? That, in itself, is impressive and you should all be very proud of yourselves. Thank you for the hard effort in attempting to make Blood live forever.
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Postby Willis » Fri Mar 26, 2010 06:14 am

I have absolutely no idea how to properly answer the question as I'm not sure what "Transfusion should move on" means.

DosBox does certainly quench the majority of my single-player wants (though not all), which makes the direction a little easier to me;

My take is this:
Transfusion's short term goal (relatively speaking): Recreate BloodBath with a focus of getting all weapons truly replicated, all BloodBath maps in q3bsp, and better client prediction (client-side qc).
Transfusion's eventual progression: Recreation of Blood1 & expansion packs single player.
Transfusion's long term overly optimistic goal: New Blood Content, pending the continuation of no Blood 3.

The reason for my take is each one builds upon the previous.


My personal plans:
0-6 months: No plans to work on Transfusion. My time is currently consumed as primary developer on another non-related project.
6-9 months: Start researching csqc (client-side qc game language) learning from the Nexuiz project's open code.
9-12 months: Start new qc code from scratch, attempt converting all Q1BSP maps to a Q3BSP format (required for custom hull size collision).
12-24 months: Complete full BloodBath package (decision for bots uncertain).
24+ months: Start single player, focusing on Episode 1.

If anybody beats me to any of those goals, I have no problems with that.
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Postby Guest » Fri Mar 26, 2010 07:19 am

Willis wrote:attempt converting all Q1BSP maps to a Q3BSP format (required for custom hull size collision).


This is somewhere I can defintely assist, if there are any maps to convert, I havent the slightest idea what has changed since the switch to the format. I can also immediately assist with the SP part, although as I remember, alot of the SP specific entities were removed from most of the maps, they will have to be reintroduced, like with E1M1 and the other SP attempts.

Again I will reiterate if the decision to keep the recreation stands Ill contribute as much as I can.
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Postby Bloodite » Fri Mar 26, 2010 07:20 am

Anonymous wrote:
Willis wrote:attempt converting all Q1BSP maps to a Q3BSP format (required for custom hull size collision).


This is somewhere I can defintely assist, if there are any maps to convert, I havent the slightest idea what has changed since the switch to the format. I can also immediately assist with the SP part, although as I remember, alot of the SP specific entities were removed from most of the maps, they will have to be reintroduced, like with E1M1 and the other SP attempts.

Again I will reiterate if the decision to keep the recreation stands Ill contribute as much as I can.


Whoops, this was me, forgot to login :-x
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Postby zZaRDoZz » Fri Mar 26, 2010 02:17 pm

LAST EDIT APRIL 9

So far:

Nay:4
Ransu
leileilol
a6ela
willis

Yea:5
zZaRDoZz
Dusty
BON
Juicecartel
liberation

undecided: (aka: whatever)5
Bloodite
ILA
Wirm
Erlic
Tchernobog
Last edited by zZaRDoZz on Fri Apr 09, 2010 07:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tchernobog » Fri Mar 26, 2010 06:53 pm

Well, even if nothing comes of this it is certianly bringing in a lot of old and new faces. :)
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Postby DustyStyx » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:37 am

It's 30 days today.

So far it looks like there is a 50/50 split from those who have voted, and with a majority undecided. Not really enough for a change in "official" action.

Any last minute arguments?
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Postby zZaRDoZz » Fri Apr 09, 2010 03:25 pm

While the nays have my sympathies, there is no practical way to move on. I'm going to see if I can get the potential volunteer to cast a vote, if not you can effectively combine the undecideds with the yeas as none of these groups sees a way for Transfusion to realistically continue. The undecideds simply don't want Transfusion to end, which nobody *wants*.

Dusty:
This brings up the question: "What's the point?"

The Transfusion team and community have always wanted to see Blood brought into the modern era of computer gaming technologies. An ambitious goal that has never truly been realized. However if we acknowledge that replicating Blood as it was presented on the Build engine, is no longer necessary, we can skip directly to this secondary goal of providing high-rez materials to the Blood community.

EDIT: 1320 9/4/2010

AND

...A re-purposing would mean a shift from "Replicate Blood" as our primary goal, to a goal of supporting community efforts in story telling.

In truth, the main goal of the Transfusion trunk would still be to replicate Blood. But in so far as the community expectations go it's my opinion that we should be honest and just say: “Not in the foreseeable future. But enough about us, how can we help you?”
Last edited by zZaRDoZz on Fri Apr 09, 2010 07:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Liberation » Fri Apr 09, 2010 06:33 pm

Hi all,

IMO Transfusion would be better to head off towards new ideas, myself would like to see a blood3 but also a good frame for modders and the like to base there projects off, ie a good selection of enemys/ weapons / texutres for people just wanting to make SP levels and a well documented C code for people wanting to make tc/mods.

Hope that makes sense. :D
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Postby Guest » Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:50 pm

DustyStyx wrote:This is pretty much all we are going to actively do with Transfusion. If you have an idea for a story, feel free to use Transfusion to make it happen. In the likely event that you need something from Blood or Blood II added to the Transfusion trunk, or if you feel something could have been done better, we can help make it possible for you, as well as maybe help out with other parts of your mod (depending on the individual developer's preference). Subsequently, the replicated Blood components would then be added to future releases of the trunk, probably along side the story branch it supports.


So let me get this straight. Transfusion hasn't been worked on in years because most of the original team abandoned it. They were the ones with a goal and the actual talent to do the hard work, but since nobody is doing any work anymore you want to still feel Transfusion has some kind of purpose and future. So you're hoping that others will come along to play with your toys and finish your work for you?

If anyone wanted to build a map, or saw the potential in telling a story using Transfusion, they would have done it already. But there have been no new maps, models, textures or anything created for Transfusion by anyone, in years.

If you want others to do your work for you, then you can start by ending your delusion that your some kind of project leader. A true leader has a clear vision, and the will and determination in making their goals a reality. You clearly have none of these qualities, and you even hope that others will make the difficult decisions for you, and to also do all of the hard work that still needs to be done.

This vote is really just a sad attempt at trying to pretend that Transfusion is still alive and has some kind of future. Why don't you actually do some real work yourself, and then present some new material to everyone? If you can't do that, then you really have no business at all in representing or speaking for Transfusion.

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