Project 'brainstorming'

General discussion relating to the Transfusion project.

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Slink

Not to be a dick, but...

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Postby Slink » Fri Feb 27, 2009 05:24 pm

It seems as the Daedelus got to you. ;)

I never said that it did.
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zZaRDoZz
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Postby zZaRDoZz » Sat Feb 28, 2009 05:47 pm

;\
It seems as the Daedelus got to you. Wink


Because I wished him a happy b day or because I quoted wikipedia?
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Slink

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Postby Slink » Mon Mar 02, 2009 05:00 am

Hah, no just the litigious manner in which you so directly countered the assumption drawn from my post. :lol:
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Postby leileilol » Tue Mar 03, 2009 08:28 am

hi, briefly defecating alphanumerals with punctuations:

i did have a thought last month for a 'blood-style arsenal and player physics' mod for OA with completely original, not blood-derived, open sourced assets just for an excuse of 'testing the waters' (and sawed off shotguns always have fun feedback), but this never got past the ideas stage since I realize how much suck the Q3 game code is structured compared to the progs106.zip files I am very familiar with. That and the fact i'd have to worry about memory issues since qvms arent as safely executed and virtual as you'd think, they're a bitch to debug. Starting small like this idea instead of converting the entire game could be a better plan if Q3 were to be switched to, if in any event if it were to actually occur. I'm no q3 coder to speak of, though I did dabble alot with about everything else (q3map2 an exception).
The 'mod' would have derived off of GPL OA code which there would be unlagged, and several additional not-Q3 game modes implemented, so it would be a fun tommygun sodomizing bloodbath gaming platform. If there would be enough sufficient Free (NOT TFN) media then, the tumor would break off and operate on its own as a standalone without a baseoa dependency.

Please don't compare Quake3 gamecode against QuakeC, they're completely different monsters. Q3A is traditionally divided into cgame (Client-side code), game (Server-side code) and UI (menus), compiled by lcc (For cross-platform qvms) or big name compilers (For native os specific code such as .so and .dll). QuakeC on the other hand is more universal, with its own specialized stripped-down language dedicated for the game engine it's for, but not limited to that when there are QCC compilers that add more, compatible advanced features such as arrays. Calling that limited is like, well, <i can't think of a funny analogy here>

I don't think TFn needs an engine switch at all, if anything, that'll just ultimately put a stall on the project. I do think it could use a model format change though, .psk sucks and has little technical benefit over .md3 IMO, and limits potential contribution, and also discourages improvement (what programs import PSK that isn't maya or milkshape?).

Also replicating Blood's player physics would be a very very tedious adventure, because all Q3 fans love the bouncy physics and fat dwarf view heights and angles, it wouldn't be Blood if it were to be like that



I should also note that switching to Source, including the Orange Box engine, is the worst possible idea you can have for this project. The asset pipeline of Source is among the most atrocious i've ever seen with more tool hassles and unforseen instabilities in their editors, not to mention you limit the audience to people that own HL2, which probably only want to play Counter-Strike, TF2 or Insurgency anyway. The popular mods on Source that get constantly played are just typical 'team bullets' fare. You also limit the platform to Windows, which is especially inappropriate given that this is not the platform of choice for the most key members of the TFn team.
Ragdolls, vehicles (without prediction), annoying HDR and whatever "omg dx10" brings can all go to hell.
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zZaRDoZz
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Postby zZaRDoZz » Tue Mar 03, 2009 09:04 am

did you just volunteer or ....
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DustyStyx
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Postby DustyStyx » Tue Mar 03, 2009 06:30 pm

zZaRDoZz: I think he's talking about doing a completely different side project, while arguing the point that Transfusion would be better sticking to DarkPlaces.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a Blood inspired game done, if that's what he's suggesting. We wouldn't have to pussyfoot around what we can and can't do with the Blood story line or game media. It could ALL be created under GPL/CC. And anyone could use the materials for whatever pet project they are in favor of at the time.

Granted that would be a cold start, unless some one were to go out and track down compatible art work that has already been done for various other CC projects. It'd take a while before it reached critical mass... if ever.
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Postby Ransu » Tue Mar 03, 2009 08:04 pm

The Source engine really would be nice to have a Blood remake on, but I have heard about how the editing tools suck. Hell, when Left 4 Dead's SDK gets released, I'd love to see someone create Caleb with his weapons on it at least. I love Left 4 Dead and having Caleb in it would kick ass! :D But, yeah, Transfusion should stay on DarkPlaces based on what leileilol said. Newer and better models would be nice, too.
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Slink

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Postby Slink » Wed Mar 04, 2009 01:22 am

Yeah. Source tools blow (not because of the interface, just because of the buggy proprietary, all-around-terrible implementation). HL2 stuff is proprietary. No whining need be done about our engine (on my part).

DP is great because we can accomplish whatever we want to (or feel the need to) and it's open source.

I played OA. It's about as infuriating as Q3A. It's unnecessary and uninteresting as far as an engine switch is concerned, though a side project is another story. Also played Nexuiz, and that feels more like oldskool Quake, whereas Q3A seem like Quake on crack.

I'm so ****in' lazy--I kinda like coding but I'm so reluctant...
School blows.
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Postby Kazashi » Wed Mar 04, 2009 01:33 am

I should just quickly point out, there is no limitation in regards to the model format used, except for that which DarkPlaces supports. There's no rule saying a model MUST be PSK; the animated models were done in this format because, being a skeletal format the file sizes were smaller, it's potentially easier to switch out animations without re-exporting the entire model, and it's a format I was able to export to (since nobody else was interested in making models it was implemented to make my toolchain easier). If someone comes along with a .dpm or an .md3, that's fine.

Newer and better models would be nice, if there was someone to make them. I don't know if people want better models because they haven't seen the ones with the most recent release, or if they simply don't like the existing models (I have always been an amateur hobbyist, I make no claims about my skill level), but since I am no longer working on Transfusion, at this point there is nobody to do anything about it.

The topic of switching engines has been popping up for years. There are two main reasons for why the engine hasn't changed from DP. First, one of the goals is to run Transfusion on more than just Windows. Second, there hasn't been anyone willing to commit enough time to porting/recreating the code. In this project, and many others, people have stood up to say that "x engine would be better", or even "I can help, I'll port everything over", with nothing being the result. There are projects I know of that have had to redo months of work, or even been abandoned, because someone has disappeared half way through a switch. So unless someone has already been working on this and is 99% through before they show their work, the risk is too great for a project already suffering from lack of developers.

So much for just quickly pointing out, back into the real world.
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zZaRDoZz
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Postby zZaRDoZz » Wed Mar 04, 2009 06:43 am

What of this Nexuiz Slink keeps bringing up? If it uses DP and quake c does that mean TFn code is completely compatible? I mean might that offer a cheap and maybe low down way to get no lag, by porting the multiplayer portion of Transfusion to Nexuiz, then calling the single player portion a mod for quake using DP?
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Postby leileilol » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:04 am

zZaRDoZz wrote:by porting the multiplayer portion of Transfusion to Nexuiz

That's just completely pointless. It's not like the current TFn code is a lost cause with no way of optimizing it :roll:

zZaRDoZz wrote: way to get no lag


Have you played Nexuiz online? It's not lag-proof. What does help though is that cl_movement is default 1, and the net protocol is dp7, which i'm unsure of what tf 1.05 is of the above.
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zZaRDoZz
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Postby zZaRDoZz » Wed Mar 04, 2009 03:05 pm

leileilol:
Have you played Nexuiz online? It's not lag-proof. What does help though is that cl_movement is default 1, and the net protocol is dp7, which i'm unsure of what tf 1.05 is of the above.


No. I've only seen youtubes of nexiuz. I'm sure my suggestions are quite backwards from the most effective way to get TFn rolling again. I'm really just exploring techniques of cutting down the work load while still releasing a decent end product. I'm assuming there won't be more than 100 (50?) hours of coding left in the tired fingers of those team members who work on such aspects of the game, hence the suggestion that sp be released as a mod for quake.
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Slink

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Postby Slink » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:42 am

zZaRDoZz wrote:I'm assuming there won't be more than 100 (50?) hours of coding left in the tired fingers of those team members who work on such aspects of the game, hence the suggestion that sp be released as a mod for quake.


I don't know about the "time amount" of coding left, but doing a Quake mod?: That would be a step backwards, IMO.

The problem is really a matter of availability, and also of motivation. I am not terribly familiar with model-making (tho I'm not too intimidated by it) but I can do 2D art, I can code, and I can definitely map. But I'm already run down with lots of crap that I don't even want to be doing but must still do (i.e. school). It's that oh-so-common problem of that lil-known thing called "real life". :roll: You know?
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Postby zZaRDoZz » Thu Mar 05, 2009 03:32 am

I would not ask you or anyone else to neglect school, relationships, or even simple bill paying just to work on TFn. You'll come back online when the time is right Slink. I was trying to tempt others into the project and maybe explore ways of reducing the work load is all.
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Slink

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Postby Slink » Fri Mar 06, 2009 02:42 am

Some fresh blood would be nice.

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