Project 'brainstorming'

General discussion relating to the Transfusion project.

Moderators: Slink, General Discussion Moderators

User avatar
Slink

Not to be a dick, but...

Posts: 1913
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 04:42 am
Location: Niagara County, NY

Project 'brainstorming'

Postby Slink » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:13 am

Instead of posting another :offtopic: in the previous thread, I have created a new post here.

* Regarding switching engines, in combination with the "only the TFn team can use Blood media" agreement, as long as the team agrees that a member is a member, that said member can take on a new engine for TFn, right? (Provided it is a group agreement.)

* Also, how many of the developers own a copy of Half-Life 2 (or any HL2 sequel), Counter-Strike:Source, or TeamFortress2 on "Steam"?

I understand the points of staying open-source.
User avatar
Elric
Cabal member
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 07:35 am
Location: Paris & Limoges, France

Postby Elric » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:32 am

No offense Andrew, but you are doing exactly what I think we should stop doing: keeping the discussions about TFn in The Cabal forums. :P Could you please move this thread to "Transfusion Discussion" ?

As for HL2 / Steam, I know you're a big proponent of that. Source is probably a very good engine (I haven't really looked at it honestly), and I certainly consider the release of Steam as one of the major steps in the recent gaming development / publishing history. But none of them are open-source, and so for me it's a non-starter.

Also, we already have a lot of resources in Q3 compatible formats (meshes and maps, animations too I think). So again I think the Q3 engine would be the best choice if this project decides to switch to another engine in the near future.
User avatar
predator
Lead Mapper
Posts: 1114
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:51 pm
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Contact:

Postby predator » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:46 am

Switching to Q3 would certainly be the easiest thing.

As for source engine - I really don't know a great deal about that engine. I played HL2 like 2 years ago and that's it. I'm sure you know what you're saying Andrew, I just can't really make a comment on this as I simply have very limited knowledge of source and steam.
User avatar
Slink

Not to be a dick, but...

Posts: 1913
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 04:42 am
Location: Niagara County, NY

Postby Slink » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:32 pm

I would move this thread, but I don't seem to have administrative privileges to this forum area. :(

It sounds like Q3 really would be an easier switch. I honestly don't know the implications or requirements of switching to Source, pertaining to our existing content (as far as models go). As far as sound, maps, and art; I think those would all be easy batch conversions.

Thanks for the speedy replies!


On this topic, it seems that the Q3 engine is written in C. SO, would we have to re-write most of the code?

Basically, I believe that Q3 uses the same general language as Q1, while removing existing limitations of QuakeC. (Implementation is different, therefore if we wanted to use existing code, new code would have to be written to allow direct porting of existing quakec code into the Q3 engine, unless some QuakeC-to-Q3 port already exists. That would be a bit ridiculous and defeat the purpose of switching to Q3.)

QuakeC is a "scripting language" (which is limited) while Quake3 uses C libraries, yes?
User avatar
Elric
Cabal member
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 07:35 am
Location: Paris & Limoges, France

Postby Elric » Wed Dec 03, 2008 02:45 pm

Slink wrote:I would move this thread, but I don't seem to have administrative privileges to this forum area. :(

Oops... Indeed, my mistake. Luke, could you move it please?
User avatar
DustyStyx
2D Artist
Posts: 2069
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 02:12 am
Location: Salt Lake
Contact:

Postby DustyStyx » Wed Dec 03, 2008 08:09 pm

I could move it, but why? We've had this discussion before. It's even in the FAQ for crying out loud.
User avatar
Slink

Not to be a dick, but...

Posts: 1913
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 04:42 am
Location: Niagara County, NY

Postby Slink » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:07 pm

DustyStyx wrote:I could move it, but why? We've had this discussion before. It's even in the FAQ for crying out loud.

LoL indeed it is... yet this "new" reasoning stands the test of time and trial, I believe. DP has not quite met our expectations due to the use of the limited QuakeC. Is there any way to implement game code other than QuakeC in DP?
User avatar
boss429
Cabal member
Posts: 366
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 02:29 am
Contact:

Postby boss429 » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:18 pm

What can't be done in QuakeC?
User avatar
Slink

Not to be a dick, but...

Posts: 1913
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 04:42 am
Location: Niagara County, NY

Postby Slink » Thu Dec 04, 2008 01:11 am

QuakeC sometimes makes things difficult, or near-impossible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuakeC
User avatar
Elric
Cabal member
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 07:35 am
Location: Paris & Limoges, France

Postby Elric » Thu Dec 04, 2008 07:07 am

DustyStyx wrote:I could move it, but why? We've had this discussion before. It's even in the FAQ for crying out loud.

Well, given the topic of this thread, I think we will not only talk about "switching to the Source engine", but about the general goals and technical choices of this project.

Also, more generally, I think all discussions and information that don't absolutely need to be private (because it contains passwords for instance) should be made public. I know I'm repeating myself here, but I firmly believe it's a good and easy way to keep non team members interested in the project, to get feedback from them. And it also lowers a bit the bar of entry when someone thinks about contributing.

Slink wrote:Is there any way to implement game code other than QuakeC in DP?

All DP mods I know of use QuakeC, so even if there's another way to implement game code in DP, it probably won't be mature, stable and/or tested enough for us to use.
User avatar
Slink

Not to be a dick, but...

Posts: 1913
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 04:42 am
Location: Niagara County, NY

Postby Slink » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:26 pm

So, if there were one deciding factor that made us switch to Q3, would you say that it would be that QuakeC is somewhat limiting in it's unconventional nature, whereas the C code in Q3 is more adaptive and flexible?

QuakeC IS the reason, right? What other reasons might there be for a switch?
User avatar
Elric
Cabal member
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 07:35 am
Location: Paris & Limoges, France

Postby Elric » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:54 pm

Slink wrote:What other reasons might there be for a switch?

I don't remember having played DP online ever, but from what I was told, it's not good. So I guess you can add "online play smoothness" to your list.

And for a multiplayer oriented game, it's definitely a major one.
User avatar
Slink

Not to be a dick, but...

Posts: 1913
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 04:42 am
Location: Niagara County, NY

Postby Slink » Thu Dec 04, 2008 01:04 pm

Elric wrote:
Slink wrote:What other reasons might there be for a switch?

"online play smoothness"

Oh yeah. That's big. So, Q3 netcode is already implemented? Because that is a great advantage. I always hated Q3 (the game) but the netplay seemed very smooth.
User avatar
DustyStyx
2D Artist
Posts: 2069
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 02:12 am
Location: Salt Lake
Contact:

Postby DustyStyx » Thu Dec 04, 2008 03:43 pm

Netplay with Unlagged is very playable. Tom and I would load up his Q3 Bloodbath maps on Q3A and have a ball. Now that OA is out, it'd be trivial to get more people to playtest a few things. All we'd have to do is install OA and get Tom's Bloodbath maps; they work for the most part. Just a few items won't render, but the maps load fine.
User avatar
Slink

Not to be a dick, but...

Posts: 1913
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 04:42 am
Location: Niagara County, NY

Postby Slink » Thu Dec 04, 2008 03:48 pm

DustyStyx wrote:Netplay with Unlagged is very playable. Tom and I would load up his Q3 Bloodbath maps on Q3A and have a ball. Now that OA is out, it'd be trivial to get more people to playtest a few things. All we'd have to do is install OA and get Tom's Bloodbath maps; they work for the most part. Just a few items won't render, but the maps load fine.

That is to say "After the Q3 transition"? I'm a little lost.

Return to “Transfusion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests